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 Font size: Tiny Small Normal Large Huge Font colour [quote="CarlM"][quote="spark"]It is not that they are too complex but they are complex. You can program them into Excel and provide some repeatability and reliability. I remember when these equations first came out, I could perform a calculation on my calculator three times and get three different answers. I could wash my clothes down by the river with a rock but I have a washing machine. I think for all practical purposes, a tool such as the software or other programs that have been proven to work should be used. Performing the calculations by hand for experience or become familiar with the calculation is one thing, to do it for an actual project, not practical.[/quote] Same feelings here. I first did some calculations longhand before writing them into into Excel. The IEEE 1584 spreadsheet provided a better tool for reporting. It was good to go through that sequence to understand and remember how it all works.[/quote]
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Topic review - IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
Author Message
 PaulEngr
 Post subject: Re: IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:41 pm
 engrick
 Post subject: Re: IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
 I voted too complex but it is also too simple. We are presenting a poster at the ESW where we believe the calculation may miss the worst case IE. We are looking at a graphical approach then calculating the IE I voted too complex but it is also too simple. We are presenting a poster at the ESW where we believe the calculation may miss the worst case IE. We are looking at a graphical approach then calculating the IE
 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:08 am
 CarlM
 Post subject: Re: IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
 spark wrote:It is not that they are too complex but they are complex. You can program them into Excel and provide some repeatability and reliability. I remember when these equations first came out, I could perform a calculation on my calculator three times and get three different answers. I could wash my clothes down by the river with a rock but I have a washing machine. I think for all practical purposes, a tool such as the software or other programs that have been proven to work should be used. Performing the calculations by hand for experience or become familiar with the calculation is one thing, to do it for an actual project, not practical.Same feelings here. I first did some calculations longhand before writing them into into Excel. The IEEE 1584 spreadsheet provided a better tool for reporting. It was good to go through that sequence to understand and remember how it all works. [quote="spark"]It is not that they are too complex but they are complex. You can program them into Excel and provide some repeatability and reliability. I remember when these equations first came out, I could perform a calculation on my calculator three times and get three different answers. I could wash my clothes down by the river with a rock but I have a washing machine. I think for all practical purposes, a tool such as the software or other programs that have been proven to work should be used. Performing the calculations by hand for experience or become familiar with the calculation is one thing, to do it for an actual project, not practical.[/quote]Same feelings here. I first did some calculations longhand before writing them into into Excel. The IEEE 1584 spreadsheet provided a better tool for reporting. It was good to go through that sequence to understand and remember how it all works.
 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:24 am
 spark
 Post subject: Re: IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
 It is not that they are too complex but they are complex. You can program them into Excel and provide some repeatability and reliability. I remember when these equations first came out, I could perform a calculation on my calculator three times and get three different answers. I could wash my clothes down by the river with a rock but I have a washing machine. I think for all practical purposes, a tool such as the software or other programs that have been proven to work should be used. Performing the calculations by hand for experience or become familiar with the calculation is one thing, to do it for an actual project, not practical. It is not that they are too complex but they are complex. You can program them into Excel and provide some repeatability and reliability. I remember when these equations first came out, I could perform a calculation on my calculator three times and get three different answers. I could wash my clothes down by the river with a rock but I have a washing machine. I think for all practical purposes, a tool such as the software or other programs that have been proven to work should be used. Performing the calculations by hand for experience or become familiar with the calculation is one thing, to do it for an actual project, not practical.
 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:35 am
 L. Hankle
 Post subject: Re: IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
 I answered "seems to be OK" for a couple of reasons. We don't really have anything else to use right now and this seems to be working i.e. I haven't heard of any series injuries when this is used.As far as the answer "too simple/not enough detail" I question this one. We don't seem to get too specific with what we already have. For example, arc flash software has default arc gaps, working distance etc. - does anyone use anything different? Does anyone actually measure the bus gap on equipment? The better question would be if we could include more detail, would people just use a default anyway? This is also assuming the results of the short circuit and coordination studies needed are correct. I keep hearing there is a new edition of IEEE 1584 that will be out someday, but for now, I'm sticking with what we have "seems to be OK" I answered "seems to be OK" for a couple of reasons. We don't really have anything else to use right now and this seems to be working i.e. I haven't heard of any series injuries when this is used.As far as the answer "too simple/not enough detail" I question this one. We don't seem to get too specific with what we already have. For example, arc flash software has default arc gaps, working distance etc. - does anyone use anything different? Does anyone actually measure the bus gap on equipment? The better question would be if we could include more detail, would people just use a default anyway? This is also assuming the results of the short circuit and coordination studies needed are correct. I keep hearing there is a new edition of IEEE 1584 that will be out someday, but for now, I'm sticking with what we have "seems to be OK"
 Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:08 pm
 Jim Phillips (brainfiller)
 Post subject: IEEE 1584 Equations - Your thoughts?
 When an arc flash study is performed, most rely on software that is built around the equations from IEEE 1584. This week's question focuses on performing arc flash calculations by hand - either as an exercise or for an actual analysis. What are your thoughts about the existing IEEE 1584 equations?Too complex / Too much detailToo simple / Not enough detailSeems to be OK as is.I've Never performed calculations manually When an arc flash study is performed, most rely on software that is built around the equations from IEEE 1584. This week's question focuses on performing arc flash calculations by hand - either as an exercise or for an actual analysis. [b]What are your thoughts about the existing IEEE 1584 equations?Too complex / Too much detailToo simple / Not enough detailSeems to be OK as is.I've Never performed calculations manually[/b]
 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:07 am

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