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ekstra   ara
 Post subject: safety
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:01 pm
Posts: 44
how do you tell if a maintence guy is qualifid to work on electric and how far do you let him go. they are no where near being an electrician. industrial area 3 phase 480v. they are nown to replace something if it is not working , hoping thats it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Charlotte, NC
According to the NFPA 70E, a “Qualified Person" is one who is trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of the equipment or the specific work method, and be trained to recognize the hazards present with respect to that equipment or work method.

Such persons shall also be familiar with the use of the precautionary techniques, personal protective equipment, insulating and shielding materials, and insulated tools and test equipment. A person can be considered qualified with respect to certain tasks but still be unqualified for others.

An employee that is undergoing on the job training and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated the ability to perform duties safely at his or her level of training and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person shall be considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those duties.

In addition, to be permitted to work within the limited approach of exposed energized conductors and circuit parts the person shall be trained in all of the following:
Qualified employees shall be trained and competent in:
  • The skills and techniques necessary to distinguish exposed live parts from other parts of electric equipment
  • The skills and techniques necessary to determine the nominal voltage of exposed live parts
  • The minimum approach distances specified in this section corresponding to the voltages to which the qualified employee will be exposed, and,
  • The decision making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning necessary to perform the task safely

A few Zog notes to add to the 70E definition.
  1. Only the employer can deem an employee qualified after they have had the proper training and have demonstrated profinency using the skills and method learned.
  2. There is no such thing as NFPA 70E certification, going to a training course does not make an employee qualified.
  3. The most misunderstood part of the "qualified" term is that it is all emcompassing, you are "qualified" to work on a specific type or piece of equipment.
  4. Neither a J-card, a masters license, or an engineering degree make you a "qualified person"
  5. The word "electrician" is not anywhere in the definition of a "qualified person" meaning these rules apply to all employees and you dont have to be an electrician to be "qualified"


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:49 pm
Posts: 483
Location: New England
Agree with you Zog, but would add in the word 'experienced' into the definition. You can be trained to perform a task, but not be experienced in the performance of that task.

Also, there could be some debate about a licensed electrician being a qualified person, especially if they have a Class A license. The State, says that person is qualified to perform all electrical work. Now, I now what you are saying, but if we are talking about OSHA (the Federal Government) issuing a citation because the owner of property permitted a State license electrician to perform work who got injured, I think there could be a legal argument. Maybe the Feds should fine the States for all arc flash accidents by licensed electricians until they start testing on arc flash and not immigration law.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am
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Location: Charlotte, NC
haze10 wrote:
Agree with you Zog, but would add in the word 'experienced' into the definition. You can be trained to perform a task, but not be experienced in the performance of that task.


Rightm thats why the difinition says "Trained and competent"

haze10 wrote:
Also, there could be some debate about a licensed electrician being a qualified person, especially if they have a Class A license.


The problem with that thinking is that in the past arc flash was not covered in any training programs, and not covered on any license exams. Only recently has arc flash started to be covered in aprenticeship programs and even then it is limited and not in all the programs nationwide, only some of them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:49 pm
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Location: New England
Yes, I realize all that. But we are talking about government enforcement -OSHA. So if the State government - the licensing board - says in their labor laws that a Class A electrician can perform all work - who am I argue with the government. You have two government agencies in conflict. The feds should be notifying the States to rewrite their labor laws until the States catch up. Only most States are still years behind because the only focus on 70 and not 70E in the review process.

Its not meant to be taken literally. I know what you are saying and agree with you. Just find it troubling that we live in a country with so much government overlap that conflicts themselves and make our lifes more difficult.


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