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 Post subject: Please support this Proposal
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:50 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 10
Location: USA
[url="http://submissions.nfpa.org/onlinesub/onsubmain.php"]NFPA ACCEPTS PROPOSALS ONLINE[/url]

Log Number: 586 Section/Paragraph: 110.16 - Proposal for the 2011 NEC

Submitter: Joe Tedesco, Boston, MA

Recommendation: Delete the following words: [color="Red"]"that are in other than dwelling occupancies," [/color]so that the text in the 2011
NEC will read as follows:

110.16 Flash Protection.

Electrical equipment, such as switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels, meter socket enclosures, and motor
control centers, that are likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be
field marked to warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards. The marking shall be located so as to be
clearly visible to qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment.

Substantiation: I live in a nine story building that is supplied by a 1000 amp, 208Y/120 volt, 3 phase 4 wire service, that
includes electrical switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels, meter socket enclosures, and motor control
centers, that often require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized.

Each dwelling unit is supplied by a 125 amp feeder, and has a panelboard installed in a clothes closet.

The building was built before the code added the rule in 240.24(D).
Adding a field marking to warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards where it will be clearly visible to
qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment will enhance safety.

See this video and audio of the equipment room in my building:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKjAmaH6xxk#


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:03 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:49 am
Posts: 19
I understand the concern with your building's large service but isn't this over reaching into single family dwellings with small individual services? Perhaps some language about this applying to a service above a certain size like maybe 600 Amps? << just randomly picked that number, some thought could be put into what is a good size service. Maybe make it not applicible to residental services below some number. Maybe it just applies to multi tenent dwellings. I would hate to see the burdon continue to grow and reach into my house's 200 A panel fed from a very small transformer. There seems to be a lot of discussion in this forum about over reaching and the huge burdon resulting from all the new rules.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:52 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 10
Location: USA
Here's what the CMP said for the first proposal I sent

1-82 Log #1651 NEC-P01 Final Action: Accept in Principle
(110.16)
_____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Joe Tedesco, Boston, MA
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:

110.16 Flash Protection. Switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels,
meter socket enclosures, and motor control centers and are likely to require
examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be
field marked to warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards.
The marking shall be located so as to be clearly visible to qualified persons
before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment.

Substantiation: Removing the words: “that are in other than dwelling
occupancies†makes sense because the hazards exist dwelling occupancies too.

Many dwellings have services that are 400 amperes or more, and some
services are located within commercial occupancies where there are stores and
dwelling units all served by the same electrical utility system. I believe that this
change will be in the best interest of safety. With the warning sign present a
qualified person who may be a Home Inspector or NACHI member will be
aware of the need for some form of PPE, probably Catagory 2.

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise text to read as follows:

110.16 Flash Protection. Switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels,
meter socket enclosures, and motor control centers that are in other than one and
two-family dwelling occupancies and are likely to require examination,
adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be field marked to
warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards. The marking shall
be located so as to be clearly visible to qualified persons before examination,
adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment.
Panel Statement: The panel has revised the proposal to only include one- and
two-family dwelling occupancies rather than all dwelling occupancies because
one- and two-family dwellings provide a reasonable demarcation for
occupancies where arc flash hazards may exist. The panel does not necessarily
agree with all of the substantiation of the submitter.

Number Eligible to Vote: 12

Ballot Results: Affirmative: 8 Negative: 3 Abstain: 1

Explanation of Negative:

LABRAKE, JR., N.: This proposal should be rejected. Qualified persons
understand that equipment is to be placed in an electrically safe work condition
before maintenance is performed. Generally, this can be readily accomplished
in dwellings. Unlike some instances in commercial and industrial installations,
it is not likely that electrical equipment in dwellings typically operated at less
than 300 volts would have to be maintained while energized, and, therefore, do
not need to be marked as to arc flash hazards.

MCMAHILL, L.: Although I agree that arc flash hazard exists in dwelling
occupancies, I disagree that it exists at the same level as in other than dwelling
occupancies. Panelboards and meter sockets in dwelling occupancies are not
subject to the same scrutiny as commercial and industrial type occupancies,
and the potential arc flash energy is generally less too. Expanding the marking
requirement to include dwellings other than one- and two-family is excessive.
The marking requirement will apply to all panelboards and meter sockets in
multi-family dwellings. This is over restrictive and provides no useful purpose.
Flash protection warnings are intended for “qualified persons†working on
energized equipment, such as in commercial and industrial type facilities.
Adding such marking on dwelling equipment appears to only encourage
working on equipment while energized. Equipment in dwelling occupancies
should always be deenergized before servicing!

MINICK: NEMA continues to support the position that personnel safety can
best be assured when equipment is de-energized before performing any work.
Explanation of Abstention:

Explanation of Abstention:

FISKE, W.: We are abstaining from voting on Proposals 1-82, 1-83, 1-84, and
1-85, as they relate to field marking of arc flash hazards. There is no role for
conformity assessment bodies (i.e., nationally recognized testing laboratories)
to play in fulfilling the existing or proposed requirements. As we are not an
affected party, Intertek has elected not to take a formal position on the four
proposals identified above.


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