It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:21 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
ekstra   ara
 Post subject: Everyday Situation Question
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:11 am
Posts: 10
Location: New Hampshire
Is there an HRC for using a plug tester or a voltage tester with leads in a duplex receptacle? What PPE would be required for this task. Vrated gloves and safety glasses?



Joe


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:10 am
Posts: 23
joebell wrote:
Is there an HRC for using a plug tester or a voltage tester with leads in a duplex receptacle? What PPE would be required for this task. Vrated gloves and safety glasses?

Joe


I think they should be considered separately. The plug tester is among the safest, but eye protection is called for "whenever there is a danger of injury from electric arcs, flashes, or from flying objects resulting from electrical explosion" 130.7(C)(4). I don't believe that v-rated gloves would be needed, but probably leather gloves, long sleeves (non-melting), and ear protection would be. A typical plug-tester checks for correct wiring, not precise voltage, and could be considered HRC 0, IMO. Or, if considered Portable Electric Equipment, maybe just dry your hands first 110.9(B)(4) :rolleyes: .

Testing with leads, could push it to HRC 1, per Table 130.7(C)(9). That should include v-rated gloves, hard hat, leather shoes, and the list above. All while wearing an HRC 4 suit.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:48 pm 
Offline
Arc Level

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:49 pm
Posts: 480
Location: New England
What if instead of plug tester, the janitor wanted to see if the outlet was hot so he plugged in his AC powered AM/FM radio?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:10 am
Posts: 23
haze10 wrote:
What if instead of plug tester, the janitor wanted to see if the outlet was hot so he plugged in his AC powered AM/FM radio?


Just keep it all dry . . . ;) .


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:11 am
Posts: 10
Location: New Hampshire
Thanks for the input.

Would it be safe to say in the case I posted earlier you would not be as concerned with an arc flash incident as you would be with protection from an electric shock? As far as HRC's go they are established to protect from both hazards?




Joe


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:10 am
Posts: 23
joebell wrote:
Thanks for the input.
Would it be safe to say in the case I posted earlier you would not be as concerned with an arc flash incident as you would be with protection from an electric shock? As far as HRC's go they are established to protect from both hazards?
Joe


On a non-70E level, in acceptable conditions, I personally would not at all be concerned with shock from a plug-tester (assumed as 120 volt), and barely concerned from a faulty tester/arc flash standpoint.

Using a tester with leads an a 120 volt duplex receptacle likely exposes a larger area of energized metal to consider from a shock standpoint. From an arc-flash standpoint I would still consider it reasonably safe. But this more complex multimeter or wiggy can fail in more ways than a simple plug tester.

From a 70-E point of view, it depends on the work being performed. A helper may need to don leather gloves to come within 4' of the testing location to be protected from flash hazards, but would not neccesarily need voltage insulation in that boundary.

On the other hand, a system might have little chance of causing an arc-flash incident and still pose a true risk for a shock hazard.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:21 pm 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:29 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Western Canada
joebell wrote:
Is there an HRC for using a plug tester or a voltage tester with leads in a duplex receptacle? What PPE would be required for this task. Vrated gloves and safety glasses?



Joe


Hey Joe
As far as your original question - there is no arc flash hazard but there is a shock hazard. The janitor should use common sense precautions and basic PPE to avoid exposure to the electrical hazard (voltage rated gloves) assuming the receptacle is 120 volts. Carrying a plug in radio is an excellent tool for this type of test as Haze10 suggests. So is a low tech plug tester - just be sure it is UL approved!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:14 pm 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Charlotte, NC
Please....lets get real, how can plugging something into a 120 volt receptacle require PPE or pose a hazard? What level of PPE does my wife need to don when she plugs in the vacuum cleaner?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:10 am
Posts: 23
acobb wrote:
Please....lets get real, how can plugging something into a 120 volt receptacle require PPE or pose a hazard? What level of PPE does my wife need to don when she plugs in the vacuum cleaner?


Is she working as an employee when she does that? If so NPFA 70-E says she needs dry hands, and the plug is to be dry and not provide a conductive path to her hand.

If not, she only has to be as careful as she wants to be. :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:55 am 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:29 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Western Canada
acobb wrote:
Please....lets get real, how can plugging something into a 120 volt receptacle require PPE or pose a hazard? What level of PPE does my wife need to don when she plugs in the vacuum cleaner?


Alan, you're right but this does fall under the shock hazard category. More people get electrocuted at home than at work....
GFCI plugs are a good way to prevent electrical injuries too.

Lots of options without wading into the politics of arc flash!!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:18 am 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Charlotte, NC
Volta wrote:
Is she working as an employee when she does that?


Don't think I want to touch that one! :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:55 am
Posts: 44
Location: Connecticut
Back to basics

Isn't NFPA 70E only geared towards 3 phase systems? What's the hazard of a single phase 120V system? (from an IE perspective) Yes, a shock hazard exists, but it is mitigated by using agency approved devices.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:08 am
Posts: 14
John Perrotti wrote:
Isn't NFPA 70E only geared towards 3 phase systems? What's the hazard of a single phase 120V system? (from an IE perspective) Yes, a shock hazard exists, but it is mitigated by using agency approved devices.


This seems to be a common misconception. NFPA 70E deals with voltages as low as 50 volts. In fact, looking at 130.1(A)(3) in the NFPA 70E Handbook 2009, the commentary states "If the voltage of the circuit or equipment is less than 50 volts, the risk of electrocution is reduced to an acceptable level. However, the risk associated with an arcing fault might be significant. To determine the risk of injury from an arcing fault, the worker must perform a hazard/risk analysis..."

So, in a sense, NFPA 70E deals with all voltages.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:55 am
Posts: 44
Location: Connecticut
Analysis

Then what formula is used for a single phase system to determine IE?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:08 am
Posts: 14
While Annex D provides example calculations for three phase systems, for single phase you would need to consult with an electrical engineer. You may be able to "Google" single phase IE calculations for an idea.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:28 pm 
Offline
Plasma Level

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Charlotte, NC
Sparkytrician wrote:
While Annex D provides example calculations for three phase systems, for single phase you would need to consult with an electrical engineer. You may be able to "Google" single phase IE calculations for an idea.


I believe all the software versions have a single phase module, I knwo SKM does, had to buy it for doing studies on smaller facilities.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:55 am
Posts: 44
Location: Connecticut
Options for Single Phase

Yes, we use SKM also. The point I am making is how far does this go? Using PPE to plug in consumer devices?

A couple of months ago a teacher in CT received 3rd degree burns on their hand from a failed light switch. Would PPE be the answer? I don't think so. IMO the problem lies with a faulty breaker that didn't operate in time.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Arcflash Forum / Brainfiller, Inc. | P.O. Box 12024 | Scottsdale, AZ 85267 USA | 800-874-8883