Author 
Message 
Calicojack

Post subject: DC Arc Flash and Major Storage Batteries Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:30 pm Posts: 2

We are in the process of designing and building a Hybrid power system consisting of Photovoltaics, diesel generators and a large (480 volt; 4800 AH) battery bank. Fault current for this battery is certainly high enough to warrant arc fault safety considerations, but I don't seem to be able to find appropriate literature on clacs for batteries. Can anybody point me in the right direction?


Top 


Robertefuhr

Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:49 am 

Sparks Level 

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:00 pm Posts: 184 Location: Maple Valley, WA.

Unfortunately, the IEEE 1584 Standard performed experimentation and derived AF equations for only AC systems (50 & 60 Hz). We are hoping that they will be including this for DC systems in the future.
There may be others which have done experimentation, but currently I am not aware of any way to calculate the AF energy and boundary for DC systems.
_________________ Robert Fuhr, P.E.; P.Eng. PowerStudies


Top 


Calicojack

Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:22 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:30 pm Posts: 2

SO, Are DC systems, and specifically batteries exempt from the requirements of codes and regualtions regarding arc flash? In so far as the available short circuit current is enormous with a battery of this size , it is clear that the safety hazards for personnel working on batteries are significant.


Top 


Robertefuhr

Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:42 pm 

Sparks Level 

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:00 pm Posts: 184 Location: Maple Valley, WA.

[quote="Calicojack"]SO, Are DC systems, and specifically batteries exempt from the requirements of codes and regualtions regarding arc flash? QUOTE]
No, I would not say that they are exempt from code requirements and regulations regarding AF. There just is not a tool in the tool box for us to calculate it. Everybody knows that there is a hazard but there is no way to know how much of a hazard is it.
Personally, I do not go into the large battery rooms without wearing a HRC 4 Blast Suit. I use to go in wearing a cotton tshirt, but no longer.
_________________ Robert Fuhr, P.E.; P.Eng. PowerStudies


Top 


jghrist

Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:17 am Posts: 428 Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina

There are methods available to calculate incident energy for dc faults. They are not covered by industry standards, however. See IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON INDUSTRY APPLICATIONS, VOL. 46, NO. 5, SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER 2010 DCArc Models and IncidentEnergy Calculations Ravel F. Ammerman, Senior Member, IEEE, Tammy Gammon, Senior Member, IEEE, Pankaj K. Sen, Senior Member, IEEE, and John P. Nelson, Fellow, IEEE


Top 


Jim Phillips (brainfiller)

Post subject: Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:32 am 

Plasma Level 

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:00 pm Posts: 1468 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

DC Arc Flash Calculationsjghrist wrote: There are methods available to calculate incident energy for dc faults. They are not covered by industry standards, however.
See IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON INDUSTRY APPLICATIONS, VOL. 46, NO. 5, SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER 2010 DCArc Models and IncidentEnergy Calculations Ravel F. Ammerman, Senior Member, IEEE, Tammy Gammon, Senior Member, IEEE, Pankaj K. Sen, Senior Member, IEEE, and John P. Nelson, Fellow, IEEE
DC Arc Flash Calculations
The referenced paper is the best source at the moment. It was presented in 2009 at the PCIC conference and contains a review of decades of DC arc flash research and theory. What is interesting is that most of the existing research and theory points towards the same conclusion. In addition, recent DC testing as part of the IEEE / NFPA collaborative effort also confirms much of what is already known.
With all of this information already available, when I heard âwe have nothing on DC arc flashâ for the zillionth time, I realized this is an incorrect statement. I began to sift through it all earlier this year and put together some worksheets, problems and included it in my arc flash calculation training class.
Some questioned why I pushed forward with it since none of this is an official standard. Because the AC arc flash calculations began the same way. There were papers and theory before the 2002 IEEE 1584 and companies that were ahead of the arc flash curve used what was available at the time.
After announcing that I put together the DC arc flash worksheets / problems / examples towards the first part of this year, I was immediately contacted by a couple of the major arc flash software companies. Since then, I have been involved with DC arc flash both domestically and overseas, with prototype projects, and with large traction power systems.
What is amazing is DC arc flash is really not that difficult. So, here are the basic steps based on some of the equations in the referenced paper.
1) Calculate bolted DC current
The first step like with any analysis is you need to develop a circuit model. This includes the DC voltage (VDC), and DC equivalent resistance (RDC) of the system. With this information VDC / RDC = ISC bolted where IDC bolted is the bolted short circuit current.
2) Use iteration to calculate DC arcing resistance and Iarc
Determine the DC arcing resistance is bit more cumbersome. The paper has an equation to calculate the DC arcing resistance but it is dependent on knowing the arcing short circuit current. This creates a dilemma since you can not calculate the arcing short circuit current without the arcing resistance and you canât solve for the arcing resistance without the arcing short circuit current. This requires an iterative solution. As a first approximation / iteration, begin by assuming the arcing current is 50% of the bolted current and then solve for the DC resistance.
3) Determine the final answer through iteration
Once the first approximation of the DC arc resistance has been made, substitute it into the circuit and recalculate for the arcing short circuit current. VDC / (RDC + Rarc). This produces a new Iarc. Recalculate for a new RDC by using the new Iarc and continue until the answers converge (i.e. stop changing) This may take many iterations.
4) Calculate the power in the arc
Once the Rarc and Iarc are known, the power in the arc is I^2R where I = Iarc and R = Rarc.
5) Calculate the energy in the arc
The energy in the arc is Power x time so it is simply I^2R x Rarc x time in seconds. This produces wattseconds which is the same as joules.
6) Calculate the incident energy
Next there are two equations depending on whether the arc is in a box or air. Spherical equations are used for air and alternate equations are used for the box.
The calculations are not at all difficult so I pushed what was available out onto âcenter stageâ this year in hopes of moving this forward instead of âthere is nothing available for DCâ. I understand the 2012 NFPA 70E will include some info on approach limits and HRC's for DC arc flash as well.
One thing that is very different than AC calculations is many DC battery systems do not have protection. What do you use for the arc flash duration? You can plot graphs of incident energy vs. time and make a judgment on how much exposure you can have vs. the PPE that you would like to wear.
I hope this helps everyone understand DC arc flash calculations a bit better. Contact me if you have any questions.
_________________ Jim Phillips, P.E. Brainfiller.com


Top 


stevenal

Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:53 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:00 pm Posts: 524

Jim,
Care to share that equation you refereed to in bullet 2?
Do you know if the arcadvisor calculator uses the same approach?
The maximum power transfer into the arc will occur when the arc resistance is equal to the source resistance, and the voltage drop across the arc is half the open circuit voltage. Seems like one could avoid the iteration in this manner. Would the results obtained this way be overly conservative?


Top 


Jim Phillips (brainfiller)

Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:18 pm 

Plasma Level 

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:00 pm Posts: 1468 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

stevenal wrote: Jim,
Care to share that equation you refereed to in bullet 2?
Do you know if the arcadvisor calculator uses the same approach?
The maximum power transfer into the arc will occur when the arc resistance is equal to the source resistance, and the voltage drop across the arc is half the open circuit voltage. Seems like one could avoid the iteration in this manner. Would the results obtained this way be overly conservative?
The equation is:
Rarc = [20 + (0.534 * gap)] / (Iarc^0.88)
Rarc = ohms
gap = millimeters
Iarc = amps
I don't know what arcadvisor uses. I know a few of the major S/W vendors have been exploring this  as mentioned a few of them contacted me right away(one within and hour of us announcing what we did)
Yes the max power transfer uses 0.5 and this was used in a theoretical model published a few years ago. I found that with the above model, Iarc tends to be greater than 0.5 I bolted. I dont' know if this occurs for every case but for high current traction systems it has been my experience.
The paper is worth obtaining from IEEE.
_________________ Jim Phillips, P.E. Brainfiller.com


Top 


stevenal

Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:00 pm Posts: 524

So I'm finding a maximum IE when the gap is zero (assuming negative gaps are not allowed).
Sound right?
Arcadvisor has very different results.


Top 


Jim Phillips (brainfiller)

Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:44 am 

Plasma Level 

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:00 pm Posts: 1468 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

stevenal wrote: So I'm finding a maximum IE when the gap is zero (assuming negative gaps are not allowed).
Sound right?
In real world conditions, if the gap is zero then Rarc will be zero. This would result in Iarc^2 * Rarc becoming zero as well. i.e. no power in the arc and no energy from the arc.
However, mathematically, the equation has some limits. The arc resistance becomes quite nonlinear at currents below 1,000 amps. The arc resistance is still not perfectly linear above 1000 amps but it is considered linear enough for a solution. The gaps for the equation range from 5 to 500 mm.
It's not perfect but AC arc flash calculations began in a similar way and continue to evolve. I'm trying to do my part to get the info out there so everyone can help move DC arc flash along. Good to see there is so much interest.
_________________ Jim Phillips, P.E. Brainfiller.com


Top 


Vincent B.

Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:05 am Posts: 252

stevenal wrote: So I'm finding a maximum IE when the gap is zero (assuming negative gaps are not allowed).
Sound right?
Arcadvisor has very different results.
Same as AC, you can't know the maximum IE while looking only at the arc current or arc power, you need to also factor in the timecurrent curve of the OCPD which will stop the arc (not much applicable for battery cells and such though).
For solving only for Iarc, any iterative solver will do the job (Excel's Goal Seek or Solver functions will help you there, unless you like to put NewtonRaphson's method together by yourself). That'll give you quite easily Iarc, Rarc and Parc, but for the arc energy you need the proper TCC to get t from Iarc.


Top 


stevenal

Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:00 pm Posts: 524

I simply checked enable iterative calculation in Excel, and all works fine. I used the 1584 2s to run away time and an 18" distance, and see that by adjusting the gap downward the IE always increases.


Top 


Walt Mendenhall

Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:08 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:28 am Posts: 8 Location: LLynchburg, VA

Additional DC equations reference
After several years of empirical studies in Toronto in which the arcing energy was measured from DC faults, there are some basic and conservative IE equations derived in the paper "Arc Flash Calculations for Exposures to DC Systems", authored by Daniel R. Doan of Dupont that was published in IEEE Transactions on Industry Applications, Vol. 46, No. 6, November/December 2010. This work is cited as a reference in the newly released NFPA 70E 2012 in the Informative Annex D.8.


Top 


BenFr

Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:01 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:22 pm Posts: 1

Hi
I have troubles figuring what the "gap" could be in the system I'm working on.
I have no troubles using my PPE but as other "newbies" will work on it with no knowledge of batteries, I'd like to have more information to convince them.
this is composed of several 48V batteries wired in series to voltages up to 400500V.
the mechanical design of all parts has been made respecting clearance and creepage for more than 1000V
is the gap:
 A the distance at the breaker input
 B the distance between terminals in the 2 modules I connect
 C the distance between terminals
if A, the connection to the breaker is made first, without the battery connected
if B, gap gets from infinite to 0 when I make the connection
if C, it is several inches, gap is huge, no arc here...
the main risk identified is shorting 2 poles with a tool or a loose cable.
shorting current is somewhere in the 4kA in the "optimal" conditions but I would not define this as an arc current : it happens even on a single module and projects melted metal particles due to the poor contact on the short location and the high current. Anyway this only asks for FR cloting, face shield...
I can't find a gap in the design that would allow an arc to appear and be sustained.
if somebody could enlighten me on this one, I would appreciate.


Top 


S. Patel

Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:25 pm Posts: 7

In the absence or inability to come up with better data or calculations, this migt just be a good case to simply default to the new NFPA 70E DC tables for PPE on DC systems.


Top 



Page 1 of 1

[ 15 posts ] 


You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum

