It is currently Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:59 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
ekstra   ara
 Post subject: Flooded Floor Shock Hazard
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:26 pm
Posts: 2
How much of a shock hazard is it when a 480v submersable sump pump system fails and personnel are required to go into the water?

Water conductivitry 2500-3000 umhos.

Float swithces - 110v inside sump.

Pump power 480v terminates in waterproof connectors at pumps in bottom of sump.

Pump control box is mounted on nearby wall and grounded.

Pump swithces are ordinary metal toggle switches.

I am concerned if there is any cuts/breakdown in the pump power leads/connectors or float circuits that because of the high conductivity water, I could be exposed to an electrical shock.


Thanks


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:09 pm 
Plasma Level
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Rutland, VT
Am I missing something? Why isn't the power LOTO to the pump? Then there shouldn't be a shock hazard. Why is someone going to work on it energized standing in water? :confused:

_________________
Barry Donovan, P.E.
www.workplacesafetysolutions.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:26 pm
Posts: 2
Company maintains that the sump pump design is safe for personnel to enter the water without need for ppe or loto. I maintain that a voltage potential could exist from damaged or faulty insulation on the pump leads that could deliver a shock through the relatively high conductivity water when standing in and touching a ground. I cannot find info to support/disprove my claim.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:09 am 
Sparks Level

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 110
Location: Yankton SD/ Lead SD
Next time the pump goes bad and needs servicing, ask someone from "The Company" to come out and service it without LOTO and PPE.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:27 am 
Arc Level

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:00 pm
Posts: 604
You indicated the system had failed. A likely failure mode is insulation failure allowing water to intrude as you stated. Since the system has failed, there can be no valid reason to issue an energized work permit. And since the control box is in the affected room, you will need to LOTO at a different location. You should be able to support your claim by searching the OSHA and NFPA regs.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:06 pm
Posts: 1
Shocking Results

You are better off contemplating the fate of the universe. The great philosopher Knute Rockne once pondered; how many chickens does it take to cross the road? Considering the road is wet, conductivity 2300 - 4000 ohms range, and wind south by south west. Perhaps it is better to contemplate why you were run over by a truck as you were distracted by your original question. Conductivity doesn’t kill ~ electricity does.

Try sending a senior employee into the water ahead of you.If nothing happens your good, if not, hello day shift! If all else fails, have an electrician (qualified) throw the breaker and strap some boots on. It’s going to be a long day.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:10 am 
Sparks Level

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:10 pm
Posts: 262
Location: NW USA
I'm not going in, I'll be watching from way over there. :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
© 2022 Arcflash Forum / Brainfiller, Inc. | P.O. Box 12024 | Scottsdale, AZ 85267 USA | 800-874-8883