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ekstra   ara
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:30 am 
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Reading this thread I was struck by a few things:
1) The company is required to provide the proper level of PPE as required by the HRC of the task you are doing, and the employee is required to properly wear the PPE. It does not sound to me that this is the case here.
2) Respect for electricity is a good thing, and it breeds caution. On the other hand, fear is a work hazard that I don't think people take into account. Fear can cause accidents. I think if a worker is afraid to do something, he should not be doing it. Instead, he should be receiving training to learn to work on the equipment or to do the task safely.
3) Training for a task should not just be a short class or powerpoint showing the task being done, especially wehen you have non-electrical workers doing a task like racking breakers in and out. You need to have OJT, or hands-on training as well. An electrician should work with the operator, showing him the proper way to do a task, then monitoring him doing the task correctly a couple times before saying he is qualified to do a task. As a third step, I used to have trainees 'teach' me to do the task I was training them on to be certain they really understood what they were being trained to do.


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:36 am 
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Zog wrote:
That is a big assumption and is based off design criteria. Once those breakers are in service and specifically if they are not properly maintained history actually shows us some pretty high failure rates.

A 2007 IEEE paper addressing the reliability and integrity of low voltage overcurrent protective devices reviewed various surveys. It was found that nearly one‐third of all circuit breakers failed while in service and thus would not have been identified unless proper maintenance was performed. In addition, 16% of all circuit breakers failed or were damaged while opening.

I suppose that is why I stated (not quoted) I would rather be protected by passive systems. It is base expectation that an industrial plant maintains their systems. Are you suggesting arc flash sensing relays should not be trusted? Just trying to understand your point in the context of the initial question.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:34 am 
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Gary B wrote:
I suppose that is why I stated (not quoted) I would rather be protected by passive systems. It is base expectation that an industrial plant maintains their systems. Are you suggesting arc flash sensing relays should not be trusted? Just trying to understand your point in the context of the initial question.


We all know most industrial plants do not properly maintain thier systems. Not too much that can go wrong with arc flash sensing relays but they still rely on the breaker doing it's job.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:52 am 
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Zog wrote:
We all know most industrial plants do not properly maintain thier systems. Not too much that can go wrong with arc flash sensing relays but they still rely on the breaker doing it's job.


I recently read what the annual PM requirements are for circuit breakers and the testing requirements are for circuit breakers that have tripped under load.

I have been in a lot of plants, and I can't say for sure that the manufacturer's testing requirements are observed in the majority of facilities I have been in.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 7:00 am 
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Larry Stutts wrote:
I recently read what the annual PM requirements are for circuit breakers and the testing requirements are for circuit breakers that have tripped under load.

I have been in a lot of plants, and I can't say for sure that the manufacturer's testing requirements are observed in the majority of facilities I have been in.


Testing is just part of "properly maintained". Lubrication, verification of factory adjustments, and at some point full refirbishment are all requirements from the OEM's to be properly maintained. The only facilities that really do this are nuclear plants and some high end facilities (Data centers, NASA, etc...)


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