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 Post subject: 70E Qualified Assessor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:35 am 
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What is the thought process of management personnel who are doing the qualification for 70E qualified electrical worker status...should the assessor be a "qualified" person him- or herself? Is this required anywhere in the OSHA or 70E standard?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:52 am 
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Unless the assessor is doing field audits, I see no reason for them to be a 'qualified worker' as I think you are using the term.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:54 am 
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Thanks, JBD. As I read 70E and OSHA, this issue is not specifically addressed. Obviously the assessor should be knowledgeable of the assessing process, but I can see no clear guidelines as to who can actually be an assessor to "qualify" electrical personnel.

To your point, what if the person IS doing field audits or annual inspections for electrical safety as a company-required audit process? Is that person required to be "qualified?" Again, the standard never dictates this whatsoever, unless I am missing something in OSHA or 70E.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:50 am 
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There is no blanket qualification of employees.
NFPA70E 105.3 says it is up to the employer to decided what 'qualified' means.
110.2(D)(1)(a) specifically says that "A person may be considered qualified with respect to certain equipment and methods but still unqualified for others."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:15 am 
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Exactly. In our class, we teach that very point --- the employer must "qualify" their own employees, and they are the ones who decide who is "electrically qualified." The question continues to be asked, "Well, who is qualified to qualify someone as an electrically-qualified employee?"

For instance, often a person from HR is filing the assessor role, yet this person may have absolutely NO knowledge of electrical safety, electrical equipment, etc. If you want to hear an interesting conversation, listen in on an assessment where a 20 or 30 year veteran electrician is being evaluated by a fresh-out-of-college HR person who is 23 or 24 years old, and corrects an electrician from a written company policy without truly understand the dynamics behind arc flash, electrical shock, etc.

We have all heard of "train the trainer" programs in confined space, etc. These programs exist to ensure that the trainer/evaluator does have a "clue" and is "qualified" to "qualify" others. This concept seems to be missing from the OSHA and/or 70E regulations as a requirement.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:22 am 
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Kenneth Sellars wrote:
The question continues to be asked, "Well, who is qualified to qualify someone as an electrically-qualified employee?"


The answer continues to be the same - it is up to the employer to make the qualification.

Why do you think that only electricians can assess electrical work?
It strikes me that you are trying to push your company's agenda/product/service.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:29 pm 
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I believe OSHA would say the assessor would have to be qualified to to the assessment. I know many people who are not electrically qualified (or would not be qualified to do electrical work today) who are great at doing electrical safety audits. Depends on audit scope.

NFPA 70E actually has two audits: Supervisory Work Practice audit (annually on each electrical worker), ESP audit (every three years) and a site audit (annually, but not clearly defined as to if it is an equipment audit or work practice audit). This could be three VERY different people.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:37 am 
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Findings of arc flash and PPE categories at new, not yet built installations , may be considered electrical manufacturer supplied services under the Contractors direction.

However the recommendations of changes at existing facilities, done by an outside consultant, could be considered PE Engineer Consulting work, and should be provided and sealed by a PE Engineer licensed in the State where the facility is located, or may be in violation of that State's Professional Engineering Laws.

It is my opinion that the study : "Request for Proposal", include the study be created, under the direct supervision, of a Professional Engineer, and Professional Licensed Engineering Firm licensed, in the State the facility is located in.

In the State of Illinois per :"The PE ACT of 2010" 325/3 Applications of the Act(o) "Professional Engineering Practice"Means the Consultation on... and design of... and selection of materials... that requires extensive knowledge of engineering laws."


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:43 pm 
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JBD,

What are you talking about "trying to push your company's agenda, etc." ? I have no idea where that came from and am certainly not trying to push an agenda of any sorts. How does my question bring up that comment. The question asks opinions about who is qualified to qualify others. NO training company in my opinion has that authority, since the "company" is the qualifying agent. Those kinds of comments are best left unsaid unless warranted by someone on this site pushing an agenda. Let's keep things professional here :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:32 am 
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I sincerely hope this does not become it's own self serving bureaucracy, with specialized "qualifiers".

I see that PE licensing is turning into a business for profit as the testing is contracted. I'm all for profit, however; in an eagerness to generate more business the protections inherent of professional licensure will evaporate. I believe NCEES is presently working towards offering PE testing overseas, something that could eventually be harmful to American consumers unless other cultural aspects are also addressed.

The same thing would happen if "qualification" becomes a 3rd party duty. Very few if any businesses in America in 2012 are willing to stretch their liability by trying to push their own agenda above proper qualification procedures, it seems to be working well.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:57 pm 
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It is up to the employer to qualify his employees. The way I understand, is the employer can higher a third party to train his employees who work on 50 volts or greater; its just not a one time qualification, if the employee who has been deemed "qualified" by the employer per the NFPA 70E comes into work hung over, then its up to the employer to deem that person unqualified until he or she is fit to perform work safely. Obviously there are stipulations and requirements that need to be met in such trainings.


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