It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:19 am



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
ekstra   ara
 Post subject: cbehrens
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 2
Location: Chicago Area
Context of Industrial Substations

All,

I have searched this forum in regards to what specific areas the NFPA codes should be applied, but the specific areas are gray. The below is and excerpt from NFPA 70 E which states

Document Scope: 90.2 Scope.

(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations.

My confusion is the context in which “industrial substations†is referred to. All the areas mentioned previous to industrial substations appear to be in the low voltage category therefore it seems industrial substations would follow suit.

Does anyone have an opinion on the intent of how industrial substations are to be interpreted?
Would this be LV unit substations up to and including HV open air substations? :confused:

Thanks in advance for information regarding this gray area.

cbehrens


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:30 am 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Charlotte, NC
70 E excludes equipment owned, operated, and maintained by a utility for the purposes of generation, transmission, or distribution of electricity.

If the electric equipment is customer owned, all of the 70E requirements apply irregardless of voltage level.

If it is customer owned, there is no grey area.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 2
Location: Chicago Area
Thank you for the prompt reply but in all due respect I read scope differently than you do.
The context in which industrial substation is written in the scope clearly indicates to me that NFPA 70 E is addressing LV or unit substations, therefore a gray area in my opinion! At any rate if there is other language in the NFPA 70 E defining industrial substations or the equivalent I would be eager to see it and then better understand what the NFPA 70 E is indicating, as I have not been able to find it.
I am aware of the utility exemptions regarding NFPA 70 E, and my understanding is that the NFPA 70 E was created due to a request from OSHA, therefore I have gone back to OSHA to better understand where NFPA 70 E is coming from.

An excerpt from OSHA 1910.269 reads:

Power generation, transmission, and distribution installations, including related equipment for the purpose of communication or metering, which are accessible only to qualified employees;

Note: The types of installations covered by this paragraph include the generation, transmission, and distribution installations of electric utilities, as well as equivalent installations of industrial establishments. Supplementary electric generating equipment that is used to supply a workplace for emergency, standby, or similar purposes only is covered under Subpart S of this Part. (See paragraph (a)(1)(ii)(B) of this section.)

I read “industrial establishments†as privately owned open air substations if they meet the OSHA definition. If the OSHA definition is correct then NFPA 70 E’s industrial substation is not clear to me.

cbehrens


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:04 am 
Offline
Arc Level

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:17 am
Posts: 409
Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina
NFPA 70E Article 90.2 (B) (5) clearly limits the exception to installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:41 am 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Charlotte, NC
Maybe your grey area is a result of your consideration of 1910.269.....not 70E. 70E will include all non-utility owned installations....really can't see a grey area there.

OSHA 1910.269 can cover them all if they wish, it is a Federal Regulation. 70E is a consensus standard of the NFPA that clearly covers only non-utility equipment.

The NESC takes care of the utility stuff.

The way I see it, 70E and the NESC standards are methods and practices which should allow you to comply with the requirements of OSHA 1910.269.

Other comments?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:26 am 
Offline
Arc Level

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:00 pm
Posts: 429
Try the handbook.

"Industrial and multibuilding complexes and campus-style wiring often include substations and other installations that employ construction and wiring similar to those of electric utility installations. These installations are on the load side of the service point, and the installation is usually an owner-maintained substation, so their work practices are clearly within the purview of NFPA 70E."

Nothing in the body of NFPA 70E supports the notion that only low voltage is included. Table 130.2(C) for example goes to 800 kV.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:13 pm 
Offline
Arc Level

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:17 am
Posts: 409
Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina
Quote:
An excerpt from OSHA 1910.269 reads:

Power generation, transmission, and distribution installations, including related equipment for the purpose of communication or metering, which are accessible only to qualified employees;

Note: The types of installations covered by this paragraph include the generation, transmission, and distribution installations of electric utilities, as well as equivalent installations of industrial establishments. Supplementary electric generating equipment that is used to supply a workplace for emergency, standby, or similar purposes only is covered under Subpart S of this Part. (See paragraph (a)(1)(ii)(B) of this section.)

This means that equivalent industrial installations are subject to OSHA 1910.269. It does not exclude such installations from NFPA 70E.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
© 2017 Arcflash Forum / Brainfiller, Inc. | P.O. Box 12024 | Scottsdale, AZ 85267 USA | 800-874-8883