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 Post subject: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:17 am 
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Here's another label on WalMart's website for Arc Flash Hazard. Lot of information on it!


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:45 am 
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Agree, lots of really useful information on the label. So, a worker just puts on whatever PPE he has and hopes for the best? And establishing the proper boundaries to keep unprotected and unqualified persons outside that boundary would be done exactly how? Good photo, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:52 am 
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Location: Utah
Is this on the Panel or on the floor/work zone In front of the panel?


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:30 am 
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Made in China? Sorry couldn't resist.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:35 am 
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Kimo wrote:
Is this on the Panel or on the floor/work zone In front of the panel?


It would be wherever you wanted to put it. The photo is from their website.

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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:47 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:00 pm
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REALLY?

Signage: photo presents a reasonable sign.
Signage Functionality: Anecdotal, no substantial evidence offered, high-school discourse.
Purpose of post: appears more like brand bashing than offering any value to the AF cause. (and just to be clear I have no target agenda here, I've never set foot in said establishment and plan to maintain that record)

Brand flashing?
Why was this post given top billing on the forum weekly update? Surely there are other informative posts with more substance, that would support top billing.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:03 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:00 pm
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wbd wrote:
Here's another label on WalMart's website for Arc Flash Hazard. Lot of information on it!


I am not an electrician or electrical engineer which may be obvious based on my comment. But there does not appear to be anything wrong with this label so long as it is unlikely for the need for any service while energized. NFPA 70E 130.5 D. One obviously needs to warn people who are not authorized not to open the cabinet and the sign performs that function.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:15 am 
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Hi All

Greetings from Canada. You mean Walmart in the US is actually selling these labels?? I guess I will have to start checking up here to see when Canadian stores will starting selling them. My question is, to whom are they selling the labels to? Walmart does not strike me as the first choice for an industrial supplier. Define the "arc flash zone"


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:30 am 
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Oly wrote:
Why was this post given top billing on the forum weekly update? Surely there are other informative posts with more substance, that would support top billing.


The weekly update is automated


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:28 am 
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Oly wrote:
REALLY?

Signage: photo presents a reasonable sign.
Signage Functionality: Anecdotal, no substantial evidence offered, high-school discourse.
Purpose of post: appears more like brand bashing than offering any value to the AF cause. (and just to be clear I have no target agenda here, I've never set foot in said establishment and plan to maintain that record)

Brand flashing?
Why was this post given top billing on the forum weekly update? Surely there are other informative posts with more substance, that would support top billing.


The intent was to show what is showing up in all kinds of places for anything regarding arc flash that people may use and think they are in compliance.
First off, there is no definition for "Arc Flash Zone" in NFPA 70E-2015. There is an Arc Flash Boundary.

Second, "Keep This Area Clear" seems to be more in line with the 3 ft clearance in front of equipment and is a vague statement.

Third, "Authorized Personnel Only" meaning exactly what and where? Do they mean qualified people with in the "Arc Flash Zone"? If so, what is the distance of the zone?

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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:47 am 
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They have 49 pages of Brady labels but many are not compliant with NFPA 70E. Commoditization of arc flash will have consequences. Barry has it right. Most of those generic labels are just a "get one the PPE you have" warning and not really very useful.

Might help keep the cost of labels down but could increase faux compliance.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:42 am 
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That label means just as much as a "real" label does to the $7.00/hr retail or fast food employee. For a truly qualified electrician this label means nothing. What about the other 90% of the electricians? Most of the electricians I know that would be called in to work on the panel that would have this label know very little about arc flash.

For NEC that label is ok


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:17 am 
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engrick wrote:
That label means just as much as a "real" label does to the $7.00/hr retail or fast food employee. For a truly qualified electrician this label means nothing. What about the other 90% of the electricians? Most of the electricians I know that would be called in to work on the panel that would have this label know very little about arc flash.

For NEC that label is ok


Any worker working on the panel without knowing what the arc flash label means is unqualified and it is a violation of 70E for them to work on that panel. The Walmart label does not meet the labeling criteria of 70E and at best can be used to supplement proper labeling.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:54 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:00 pm
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engrick wrote:
That label means just as much as a "real" label does to the $7.00/hr retail or fast food employee. For a truly qualified electrician this label means nothing. What about the other 90% of the electricians? Most of the electricians I know that would be called in to work on the panel that would have this label know very little about arc flash.


Does this conversation now move on to a discussion about product liability?? i.e. a label that fails to meet the requirements of known standards? That would be interesting. An untrained consultant using a "faulty" label and an unqualified electrical worker getting injured in an arc flash. That would be quite interesting with the deep pockets.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:18 am 
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I would say if it is coming down to liability first and foremost it will not be what label was on the equipment or what is actually said it is going to be "Who" said this panel needed to be energized while it is worked on.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:45 am 
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C. Marsh wrote:
Does this conversation now move on to a discussion about product liability?? i.e. a label that fails to meet the requirements of known standards? That would be interesting. An untrained consultant using a "faulty" label and an unqualified electrical worker getting injured in an arc flash. That would be quite interesting with the deep pockets.

Kimo wrote:
I would say if it is coming down to liability first and foremost it will not be what label was on the equipment or what is actually said it is going to be "Who" said this panel needed to be energized while it is worked on.

Interesting point. In the cases that I've been involved with (a few of them were high profile) the case usually begins with the plaintiff's legal team shooting at anything that moves. The attorney has them seeing dollar signs so the deeper the pockets, the bigger the target whether that entity is truly negligent or not. Initially the case is not sharply focused on who really was at fault.

However, Kimo's take on this eventually does play out. Once the experts have provided their opinions, the facts have come out and "cooler heads" (sometimes) prevail, the focus moves towards what really happened and where the negligence may actually lie.

Great conversation. When I first saw WBD's label, I just shook my head and chuckled. However, this turned into an interesting conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:01 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:00 pm
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I wonder if anyone has actually used this label? That is a scary thought.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:23 am
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I agree the signage is a little short on technical info, but at least they are marking the equipment. The current standards require extensive training to understand the protections required, this is not a great sign but better than nothing at all.
Comments of personal preferences are better left for other social forums.


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 Post subject: Re: WalMart Label
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:22 am 
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Voltrael wrote:
engrick wrote:
That label means just as much as a "real" label does to the $7.00/hr retail or fast food employee. For a truly qualified electrician this label means nothing. What about the other 90% of the electricians? Most of the electricians I know that would be called in to work on the panel that would have this label know very little about arc flash.

For NEC that label is ok


Any worker working on the panel without knowing what the arc flash label means is unqualified and it is a violation of 70E for them to work on that panel. The Walmart label does not meet the labeling criteria of 70E and at best can be used to supplement proper labeling.


I agree here. This label will hold no merit should an incident occur. It can be used only to supplement proper labeling. An actual NFPA 70E compliant ANSI Z535 approved Arc Flash Warning label must be applied which can't be purchased at any retail store. An Arc Flash Risk Assessment must be performed to acquire the necessary PPE information that is required on the label.

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