Arc Flash Forum
https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/

Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confidence
https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5131		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confidence
This week’s question is another in the series about trust/confidence with various electrical protection equipment/scenarios.

It is about an Absence of Voltage Tester which is permitted (as of the 2018 Edition of NFPA 70E) to test for absence of voltage as part of NFPA 70E 120.5 Process for Establishing and Verifying an Electrically Safe Work Condition.

120.5 (7) Exception No. 1: An adequately rated permanently mounted test device shall be permitted to be used to verify the absence of voltage of the conductors or circuit parts at the work location, provided it meets the all following requirements: (1) It is permanently mounted and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions and tests the conductors and circuit parts at the point of work; (2) It is listed and labeled for the purpose of verifying the absence of voltage; (3) It tests each phase conductor or circuit part both phase-to-phase and phase-to-ground; (4) The test device is verified as operating satisfactorily on any known voltage source before and after verifying the absence of voltage.

Here is this week’s question:
How confident are you that an Automatic Voltage Tester indicates the system is electrically safe?
-High Confidence
-Moderate/Reasonable Confidence
-Low Level of Confidence
-Not at all

Your thoughts and discussion are encouraged! What do you think?
Author:  JBD [ Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
It depends on if I was able to see it with an energized voltage first.
Author:  K. Engholm [ Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
JBD wrote:
It depends on if I was able to see it with an energized voltage first.


I understand they have some kind of self checking/verification. It sounds like a good idea, i.e. don't expose people to possibly energized parts when using a meter but this is going to take some time for people to get used to. I guess if they keep a flawless track record (i.e. no failures that lead) someday the industry might embrace this but I don't expect that to be anytime soon - Trust but verify!
Author:  Guest [ Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
I’ll trust my Fluke and do live dead live testing all the time
Author:  stevenal [ Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
I have not yet seen how part 4 of the exception can be accomplished safely. Is a switch used, and if so, how can we be assured the switch did not fail during the transfer and the known source is now energizing the circuit that needs to be in a de-energized state? Is the switch part of the listed device?
Author:  L. Hankle [ Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
I believe this is great idea but it will take a while before I have confidence in relying on this alone. Someday we may look back and think why on earth did we ever expose ourselves to potentially energized equipment to test absence of voltage - but that is off in the future for now. Like anything else, it is different and needs to develop a good track record.
Author:  JBD [ Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
Once they are proven to be installed correctly and functionally tested, then I would have a reasonable confidence level.
I have seen too many inappropriately wired voltage indicators/meters/relays. Including hand held ones.
Author:  Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
Great comments. I also believe this is potentially a great idea but it will take some time to gain confidence and acceptance. It is telling that NFPA 70E has accepted it so someday we might look back at the "good ol" days of using test instruments.

It reminds me of the long evolution to accepting digital relays. Having worked for a utility decades ago, there was no way a utility would venture away from the time tested electro-mechanical relays. With digital relays, what if the electronics fail? What if the power supply fails, what if, what if... Then I recall they were eventually installed as backup devices - not fully trusting them. And then.... does anyone specify electro-mechanicals anymore? Granted we are talking about safety and energized conductors but with relays, it was a similar (slow moving) paradigm shift. Time will tell.

Other thoughts?
Author:  Charles R. Miller [ Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
Panduit has been making an Absence of Voltage Tester for several years. They call it VeriSafe™ Absence of Voltage Tester. This device has voltage presence lights built in showing when voltage is present. When the equipment is deenergized, it is not enough to just see the lights have gone out. After pressing the test button, the AVT will go through the steps required to test for the absence of voltage. This AVT uses a battery to check itself before and after testing for the absence of voltage; thus complying with (4). I teach a lot of NFPA 70E / Arc Flash seminars and I have installed this into a safety switch to show how it operated. As long as I see the three red lights before denergizing the equipment and then see the green light after denergizing the equipment, I would trust this device.

Attachments:
IMG_3745.JPG
IMG_3745.JPG [ 2.56 MiB | Viewed 13329 times ]
IMG_3743.JPG
IMG_3743.JPG [ 1.19 MiB | Viewed 13329 times ]
IMG_3741.JPG
IMG_3741.JPG [ 1.25 MiB | Viewed 13329 times ]
IMG_3740.JPG
IMG_3740.JPG [ 2.98 MiB | Viewed 13329 times ]
Author:  JBD [ Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
Charles R. Miller wrote:
As long as I see the three red lights before deenergizing the equipment and then see the green light after deenergizing the equipment, I would trust this device.


I agree.
But what do the green lights show if it is miswired, say all three voltages supplied by the A-phase only or one phase not wired at all.
Author:  Guest [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
JBD wrote:
But what do the green lights show if it is miswired, say all three voltages supplied by the A-phase only or one phase not wired at all.

It someone is familiar with the installation instructions, they could quickly look to see where all eight conductors are terminated after the enclosure door is opened. If I saw all six phase conductors terminated in one spot on one phase, I would have serious concerns about the rest of the wiring in that facility.
Author:  RMB [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
It’s natural to be skeptical of new technology, but it’s also important to be informed before making a judgement. Permanently mounted testers referred to in NFPA 70E-2018 120.5(7) Exception 1 are actually Absence of Voltage Testers (AVTs) that must be listed to UL 1436. There are several construction and performance requirements built into UL 1436 that ensure the AVT test result is reliable and accurate. Some of these features include: automatically testing for AC and DC voltage phase-to-phase and phase-to-ground; active indicator to visually convey the absence of voltage has been confirmed (active indicators are important because lack of a light does not guarantee a safe condition); a test the tester function with a known voltage source activated before and after the measurements are taken; an installation check to detect open connections between the tester and circuit; SIL 3 rating for safety functions (this is a measure of functional safety that ensures electrical, electronic, or programable electronic systems are designed in such a way to prevent dangerous failure or to control them when they arise; AVTs are designed to meet the electrical requirements in UL 61010 – the same standard digital multimeters are listed to—in addition to providing isolation between the AVT and electrical system.
Author:  JBD [ Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
Guest wrote:
...after the enclosure door is opened.


Opening the door should not be a requirement in order to verify the detector is displaying correctly when I was not involved in its installation.
Author:  Basic Bob [ Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absence of Voltage Tester and Electrically Safe - Confid
We recently installed this one for review by our corporate safety engineers.
It has both indicator lights and test points.

Attachment:
SROI2129 (2).JPG
SROI2129 (2).JPG [ 373.67 KiB | Viewed 13203 times ]
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 7 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/