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Do you miss the PDF version of NFPA 70E?
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 Post subject: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:17 pm 
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I have heard many complaints about this week's topic so lets see what your thoughts are.

In years past it was possible to purchase a PDF copy of NFPA 70E.
Now the only non-print options is through a subscription service with a license to access the information electronically only.

Here is this week’s question:
Do you miss the PDF version of NFPA 70E?
Yes
No
No opinion


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:53 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:23 pm
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Location: Ohio
Jim

It is not just 70E, the NEC is the same. As both documents use 8-9 pt font and virtually no spacing between lines, they are are not easy to read. Compare them with a document from several cycles back, there is a diff in readability. I have used OCR and converted section 110 and 130 into a Word document. I can now highlight and underline key sections for emphasis.

The 2021 version did bring a lot of editorial clarity, however, the linkage on "Likely/unlikely" is rather poor.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:34 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:19 pm
Posts: 37
70 & 70E are the two I use the most, but I also use about a dozen more on a fairly regular basis. It was convenient to load to my tablet so that I didn't have to take a stack of books along with me everytime I went out into the field. In my rural state, cell service is not a constant and can be spotty and many clients don't have wi-fi. So using the subscription service isn't really an option. When I called NFPA about it, their idiotic response was, get the paper copy, i.e. load up 50#'s of books in the truck when you go out to the field or visit a client.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:47 am 
I absolutely agree with Jeff S. In my state, cell service is very spotty in the mountain areas (Colorado) which makes reviewing online impossible. Plus, the paper versions simply are not searchable. I deal with more than the NEC and carrying books is impractical at best.

Undoubtably, this decision was made by people who are never in the field and face these problems.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:35 pm
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The real problem is the NFPA itself. Like so many other non profits, they've taken the non profit model and turned it into a business just to churn out a new code every 3 years. Worse, the people at NFPA act as if they're doing you a favor if they bother to take your call. " How dare you ask a difficult question" like when I asked them about the 125 kva exception. Their answer was "why are you opening up energized transformers?" As usual, no one there can give you a straight answer.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:58 am 
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wilhendrix wrote:
" How dare you ask a difficult question" like when I asked them about the 125 kva exception. Their answer was "why are you opening up energized transformers?" As usual, no one there can give you a straight answer.

This going off topic a bit but worth putting it out there.

It was the 2009 Edition of NFPA 70E that included the 125 kVA exception which created quite a bit of confusion. They "borrowed" it from IEEE 1584 and made a typo along the way. IEEE 1584 back then stated along with the 125 kVA language, that it applied to systems less than 240 V and NFPA 70E changed it to 240 V or less - not a huge issue but it raised a few red flags. The whole thing was deleted from 70E with the 2012 edition.

Then the decision was made that NFPA 70E will focus on safety, PPE etc. and anything to do with arc flash calculations will fall to IEEE 1584 to minimize that kind of overlap/confusion in the future.

...and as I am often reminded, here is my usual disclaimer: This is my opinion and may or may not represent the view of any of the subject standards.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:08 pm 
Thanks for the clarification Jim. I did not mean to imply the exception was still in place, but to give an example of how my dealings with the NFPA went and to tie this in with the PDF question and the stated purpose behind the NFPA. The few times I've talked with them, it's not been very satisfying. This particular question about the voltage inside most of the step down transformers was simple enough: "how should I interpret the 240 volt and above when trying to apply the 125 kva exception because most of the transformers I deal with are between 15, 30, 45, 50, 67.5 75, and 112.5 kva and most have a a 480 volt primary?" Instead of actually answering, the person I talked with asked me why I was working inside an energized transformer? I told him it was not me and that I had no control over who might get into these. He either could not or would not answer this obvious question. And to this day, I still don't have a answer from the "authority". To me, the NFPA is not a not for profit organization meant to help with safety. Otherwise, why require a an annual license just to get a PDF?


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 1:12 am 

Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 12:08 am
Posts: 12
Just to join the dots to where this topic was also discussed: 70E-2021 PDF Version available?


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:48 am 
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w5m wrote:
Just to join the dots to where this topic was also discussed: 70E-2021 PDF Version available?


Yes, it raised more than a few eyebrows. This survey question was after the "dust settled" from the original discussion to so what people think. I think we have the answer. Thanks for tying this to the earlier discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 NFPA 70E – PDF No Longer Available
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:07 am
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Jim Phillips (brainfiller) wrote:
I have heard many complaints about this week's topic so lets see what your thoughts are.
In years past it was possible to purchase a PDF copy of NFPA 70E.
Now the only non-print options is through a subscription service with a license to access the information electronically only.
No opinion


This change is met with great amounts of mixed emotions. You cannot argue with the concept of standards being made freely available, especially for a standard you may just barely need to reference. On the other hand, just like a physical book, my e-copies of standards are highly marked up and flagged with the stuff I find I will need to go back to.


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