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Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
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Author:  bbaumer [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
Hi all. I have a pad mounted transformer with internal primary side 15KV rated fuses. There are two types in series. One is an expulsion fuse GE# 9F54WLD303 and one is an oil submersible protector (OSP) GE # 9F59TCD150.

I don't have them in my SKM library. I asked SKM for them and they sent me new .lib files for these but would not guarantee them. After merging them into my library and adding them to the model I don't think the curves are correct. I questioned SKM about them and they said they did not have the curves to double check against and that the file they sent me was one someone put together a long time ago and they said they did not know if they were accurate or not.

I've searched the web but cannot find the data sheets or curves on these fuses. I did find one reference to one of the fuse types in ETAP but don't know if maybe ETAP has them in their library.

I have attempted to upload a little info on these fuses from 1986 when we bought this transformer. It is 2 pages, one file.
Attachment:
File comment: A little info on the fuses I need curves for
BC xfmr.pdf [813.65 KiB]
Downloaded 318 times


Anyone? If so my email is <PM me>
Thanks!
Author:  bbaumer [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
I also found this file which helps some. The curves in the SKM library are showing the 104A fuse blowing at 25 amps and the 150A fuse blowing at about 50-60 amps (both long time), not 104 and 590 as the attached file suggests. The SKM curves don't even allow for transformer inrush.

Noticed this in the notes for the library file for the 9F59T:

8-83
These backup fuses are designed to interrupt currents above the minimum I/C shown below.
Fuses must be coordinated with a series device capable of clearing lower currents.
Rating (Amps) Min I/C (Amps)
40C 280
50C 300
65C 440
80C 580
100C 830
125C 475
150C 590
250C (2-125C) 900
300C (2-150C) 1080

And this for the 9F54WLD:

Current ratings are not assigned to distribution transformer internal fuses.

Refer Ermco Components Inc, for the KAIC and actual Amp ratings.
Doc # 32B548089(2 sheets)
Model Number Amp Rating (A)
9F54WLD002 24
9F54WLD102 41
9F54WLD202 74
9F54WLD302 104
9F54WLD303 104
9F54WLD402 146
9F54WLD502 200
9F54WLD602 272


Attachment:
File comment: More info on these fuses
Types-Ratings-of-Expulsion-Fuses-.pdf [19.8 KiB]
Downloaded 332 times
Author:  bbaumer [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
Here's an attempt at showing the curves. PRI FUSE 2 is the 104A fuse, PRI FUSE 1 is the 150A fuse. MDP main are A4BQ1200's in the MDP on the secondary side.

Attachments:
File comment: Curves
BC curves.jpg
BC curves.jpg [ 233.67 KiB | Viewed 4734 times ]
Author:  PaulEngr [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
Call GE and ask if they are the fuse manufacturer. I've never had problems getting data from them. Note however that they have a whole team of MBA's that are stripping the equity out of the company to feed their shareholders. If they have already decided that it is time to strip/scrap the business unit you need to talk to then GE will be completely useless. If you keep getting passed around on the phone or nobody seems to know anything, there is no point in trying to beat a dead horse.

Another option would be to call Mersen and ask them for replacement fuses. This might not be the exact fuse but it gives you a way to back into the data you want if GE is not being helpful.

Once you get the data if you give it to SKM they can create you a model but the response time is usually either about 2 days or 2 weeks depending on how busy they are. You can make one yourself but I took one look at it and decided that this is what I'm paying 20% of the license cost per year for. I've run into this mostly with semiconductor fuses that are so new/different that SKM hasn't modeled them yet. They could even use the data from ETAP but usually they are more interested in getting direct data from the manufacturer and will give you a hard time about trying to model something from ETAP.
Author:  stevenal [ Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
This is from Aspen. The annotation states:

Distribution transformer internal fuse
9F54WLD series 15 kV
Desg. No 30 Ref. GES-8311 & 8301
Created 11/20/2012

Attachments:
Curve30.pdf [27.55 KiB]
Downloaded 337 times
Author:  PaulEngr [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
stevenal wrote:
This is from Aspen. The annotation states:

Distribution transformer internal fuse
9F54WLD series 15 kV
Desg. No 30 Ref. GES-8311 & 8301
Created 11/20/2012


GES-8311 and GES-8301 are GE drawing numbers for fuse TCC curves. Might have to call because they are not on their web site.
Author:  stevenal [ Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
stevenal wrote:
This is from Aspen. The annotation states:

Distribution transformer internal fuse
9F54WLD series 15 kV
Desg. No 30 Ref. GES-8311 & 8301
Created 11/20/2012


On second look, this seems a bit light for a 1500 kVA. These are indexed by the Desg. No, which ranges from 30 to 36. If any of these numbers make sense, I'll post another curve set.
Author:  Jeff S [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
I have these TCC's. You should be able to compare them against SKM's.

Attachments:
TCC_GE_9F59T.pdf [1.09 MiB]
Downloaded 322 times
TCC_GE_9F54WLD.pdf [1.12 MiB]
Downloaded 352 times
Author:  Arcy [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
Did you get this this issue resolved?
Looks like the TCC multiplier is set to 0.1 instead of 1.0, hence the curves are to left by a decade.

Attachments:
CM.png
CM.png [ 84.53 KiB | Viewed 4704 times ]
Author:  bbaumer [ Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
Arcy wrote:
Did you get this this issue resolved?
Looks like the TCC multiplier is set to 0.1 instead of 1.0, hence the curves are to left by a decade.


I think you're right. Duh!

I changed reference voltage from 12,470 to 480V (which I know shifts the curves) then changed back to 12,470. The current scale still says 1x but the multiplier went to .1 instead of 1 for some reason. I tried this on other models and duplicated it. Something I'll have to look out for in the future.

Thanks!
Author:  bbaumer [ Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
stevenal wrote:
stevenal wrote:
This is from Aspen. The annotation states:

Distribution transformer internal fuse
9F54WLD series 15 kV
Desg. No 30 Ref. GES-8311 & 8301
Created 11/20/2012


On second look, this seems a bit light for a 1500 kVA. These are indexed by the Desg. No, which ranges from 30 to 36. If any of these numbers make sense, I'll post another curve set.


I too think they are light for a 1500 kva transformer. They don't coordinate with the transformer in-rush or the secondary side MDP main fuses. I don;t have a practical way to check these to see if that is what is really installed.
Author:  bbaumer [ Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need some TCC curves for two fuses - can't find them
Jeff S wrote:
I have these TCC's. You should be able to compare them against SKM's.


Thanks!
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