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ekstra   ara
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:32 am 
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Bombo wrote:
It certainly does not look like it's arc rated, it's about 1/16 - 1/8 inch thick and looks like fiberglass (as seen through the window). Does that sound like anything you've seen before?


Sure, see that all the time (Micarta board), not arc rated, you would know if it was.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:09 am 
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Zog wrote:
Sure, see that all the time (Micarta board), not arc rated, you would know if it was.


Excellent, thank you! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:30 pm 
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Bombo wrote:
Excellent, thank you! :)


Anytime shipmate


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:00 am 
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What is it about Navy guys and arc flash? Must be the better training!

USS Tennessee, SSBN 734!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:01 am 
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WDeanN wrote:
What is it about Navy guys and arc flash? Must be the better training!

USS Tennessee, SSBN 734!


Yeah, and definitely those of us on the subs, huh?. :cool:

It's not like we had a lot of room for error. :eek:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:09 am 
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WDeanN wrote:
What is it about Navy guys and arc flash? Must be the better training!

USS Tennessee, SSBN 734!


Didnt you boomer guys have someone come in and take the arc flash for you, like a stunt double or something?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:16 am 
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Zog wrote:
Didnt you boomer guys have someone come in and take the arc flash for you, like a stunt double or something?


Hey good point ZOG! We're still not even sure they operated those things or just submerged to the bottom of the harbor next to the pier, Since no one ever saw them... :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:16 am 
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Bombo wrote:
Hey good point ZOG! We're still not even sure they operated those things or just submerged to the bottom of the harbor next to the pier, Since no one ever saw them... :D


2 crews and porcelin toilets, sheeh.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:04 am 
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Wow, the boomer envy is really coming out! You guys sound worse than my classmates at S1C when they found out I got my first choice, and they had to go to toy boats.

Zog wrote:
Didnt you boomer guys have someone come in and take the arc flash for you, like a stunt double or something?

Yeah, we'd usually grab some fast attach guy. They were usually lost, anyway.

Bombo wrote:
Hey good point ZOG! We're still not even sure they operated those things or just submerged to the bottom of the harbor next to the pier, Since no one ever saw them... :D

Isn't that the point of a boat? What did you do, run around with your head above water? Don't we call that a target?

Zog wrote:
2 crews and porcelin toilets, sheeh.

And nooooo hot racking! We also did 3 months under with no site of the sun, slept between the missile tubes and then had to rough it down in scenic St. Marys, GA between tours...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:56 am 
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WDeanN wrote:
Wow, the boomer envy is really coming out! You guys sound worse than my classmates at S1C when they found out I got my first choice, and they had to go to toy boats.

Yeah, we'd usually grab some fast attach guy. They were usually lost, anyway.

Isn't that the point of a boat? What did you do, run around with your head above water? Don't we call that a target?

And nooooo hot racking! We also did 3 months under with no site of the sun, slept between the missile tubes and then had to rough it down in scenic St. Marys, GA between tours...


No envy here, I like to say I "worked" on a submarine. :D

Hot racking?? that would imply that we had time to sleep!

And yeah, we were a target once. In Italy we were "attacked" by Greenpeace! the Torpedoemen had a good time with the firehoses when they tried to board us though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:34 pm 
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WDeanN wrote:
And nooooo hot racking! We also did 3 months under with no site of the sun, slept between the missile tubes and then had to rough it down in scenic St. Marys, GA between tours...



342 consecutive days submerged (Mostly in fresh water :) )


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:26 pm 
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Zog wrote:
Well put (Or pasted) capt Jim, all of this nonsense of is it allowed or is it not sickens me. How many of those plants that allow work >40cal have ever been in a burn center, ever debreeded someone they love 3 times a day for 3 months?

Shut it down or engineer a way to reduce the hazard. Arc Flash mitigation is what I do and it is easier than everyone thinks, just a matter of the right solution for the problem, everone looks to a bigger flash suit or a commercially available product, when some simple engineering and a few modifications can solve the problem.

Everyone needs to remmember, arc flash safety is in its infancy, it took the US industry 29 years to start paying attention to the 70E, give the market a few years to find some solutions, things I have designed are alerady showing up more and more in planst across the US and there are smarter people than I working on solutions also, give it time, until then, turn it off if >40cal!


The issue with >40cal isn't the burn associated with it. They sell 100cal suits that would protect against the heat. However, the arc blast is what will kill you. So you can go out and get those 100cal suits. But if an incident occurs, you're just going to have a prettier corpse.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Capt Jim wrote:
I found this in a PP presentation but can not verify the sources but it makes sense . Looks like re-engineer or make it dead .

Work Above 40 cal/cm2
Label equipment warning that no PPE is available
Refer to safety procedures
Must use engineered solution
Current limiting fuses
Arc Resistant switchgear
Remote racking
Remote operation through Smart Equipment
Zone Interlocking
IP20 shrouding ( Ingress Protection )
Re-coordinating protective devices
Increasing distance
Enabling instantaneous function
De-energizing before operation

also found this

Practical methods in reducing the dangerous arc flash hazard areas in large industrial facilities
Hodder, M.; Vilcheck, W.; Croyle, F.; McCue, D.
Pulp and Paper Industry Technical Confe, 2005. Conference Record of 2005 Annual
Volume , Issue , 23-23 June 2005 Page(s):191 - 198
Digital Object Identifier 10.1109/PAPCON.2005.1502065
Summary:Industrial and commercial facilities have recognized that arc flash prevention is a part of a complete safety program. Quantification of the arc flash hazard level and labeling procedures are a major portion of this effort. When calculating incident energy, the engineer must deal with two main issues in addition to the burn hazard-blast pressure effect on the human body and worker comfort or mobility with multilayer flash suits and associated flame resistant protective equipment.[color="Red"]For work tasks where calculated incident energy levels are above 40 cal/cm2 it is desirable to reduce the exposure to the worker to reduce the burn injury. This can be achieved with either a change to the work method or by engineering design[/color]This paper will discuss various methods that have been used to reduce the incident energy levels from above 40 cal/cm2 to levels below 40 cal/cm 2. Specific solutions implemented at a large chemical manufacturing facility are presented. The solutions include equipment upgrades, overcurrent protection modifications, changes to work methods, and worker training which increase the effectiveness of an already robust safety program. In addition, design changes that could be considered to keep incident energy below 40 cal/cm2 for expansions or additions to the power system are discussed


The first three names on that list are co-workers of mine. The last name on the list does not ring a bell. Our corporate policy does not allow work above 40 cal/cm2 without a signature from our direct manager, his manager etc...all the way up the the Vice President...and we aren't some small firm, but an OEM. I haven't worked with someone yet that will do work at those levels, and we've refused work multiple times because of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:43 pm 
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I worked for a predictive/preventative maintenance consultant, and we'd do the thermography and short-circuit one lines (I didn't do the one lines), but my boss said that a lot of the units weren't properly marked, and maybe could've killed somebody.
I'm currently working on a wiki for my new boss' website, and I'm having to remind myself of those creepy days working on live panels and what-not--which were potentially way outta the category-rating of my PPE!
I'd recommend not working above 40--but, then again, I'm not planning on doing that anytime soon. Oh, and I also got to go into an electrics room in Portland where a PGE utility worker had just been thrown across the room from an AF. It looked like one of those burnt-up contraptions that explode in a Wil E Coyote cartoon. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:02 am 
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so has anyone performed live work at locations > 40 cal/cm^2? What PPE did you wear?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am 
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I wouldn't recommend it--you really can't guarantee any kind of safe PPE or techniques at that high a arc flash cat. rating. Try seeing if your company can buy (or rent) a remote racking system, or utilize a remote switch operator--something that will keep you out of the blast zone.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:39 pm 
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People tend to look only at is the burn damage but forget is the blunt force trauma to body organs from the >40cal/cm pressure wave. Awhile back I investigated a 480v, 4000A bus duct explosion in an mcc room. The transformer was loaded at 800A. The bus shorted phase to phase due to improper installation. A 2 foot bus section vaporized and it blew open 2 steel mcc room door 30 feet away. The pressure wave bent the steel door hinges and broke the panic bar opener striker plate. Anyone in the room (wearing PPE or not) would have been killed.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:44 am 
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Awesome...more Navy sub dudes....me too. Boomer - SSBN 641 USS Simon Bolivar from 1986-1991...did my six and got out, but was the best thing I ever did. Good training and use it daily in my electrical safety training career now...ya just never know, do you? Thanks for your service (both of you!)..

Ken


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