It is currently Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:55 am



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
ekstra   ara
 Post subject: Long sleeves under FR jacket
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 18
I'm new to this forum, and this has probably been answered before, is long sleeve natural fiber(cotton) or FR shirts required under the 11.1 cal jacket? I attended a real good PPE class the day before yesterday, but I failed to ask the instructor whether it was a personal preference, or a requirement. Here in the south, it's already hot in the PPE, and long sleeves is going to make it worse. But if you got to, then you got to.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:08 pm 
Offline
Plasma Level

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Charlotte, NC
hillbilly wrote:
I'm new to this forum, and this has probably been answered before, is long sleeve natural fiber(cotton) or FR shirts required under the 11.1 cal jacket? I attended a real good PPE class the day before yesterday, but I failed to ask the instructor whether it was a personal preference, or a requirement. Here in the south, it's already hot in the PPE, and long sleeves is going to make it worse. But if you got to, then you got to.


What is the Ei you are exposed to? Are you using HRC's? You have not provided enough info to answer your question.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 18
Most of our work is <500 volts, level 2 PPE requirement, got to get 70E tommorow to have the tables to look at.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:02 pm 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Charlotte, NC
I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR.

After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR.

The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 18
acobb wrote:
I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR.

After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR.

The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task.


Thats what I would think, but I figured I was missing something. :confused:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:26 am 
Offline
Sparks Level
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:37 am
Posts: 51
Location: Tampa, FL
You are correct, in that 70E doesn't specify anything about long sleeved shirts under a properly rated garment. But an electrician should always be wearing a long sleeve shirt except when working around rotating machinery doing non-electrical work, as long sleeve shirts are a hazard. You can roll them up if need be.
But wearing long sleeves under the FR garment adds to the layering effect and therefore provides the additional protection to the arms.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:52 am 
Offline
Plasma Level

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Charlotte, NC
acobb wrote:
I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR.

After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR.

The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task.


I agree, but you still need HRC 2 pants.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:00 am 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:29 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Western Canada
Ppe

Maybe a clearer way to say it is that all PPE worn and potentially exposed to the flash must be at least 11.1 cal. Undergarments do not count unless specifically tested as a system. Any undergarment is ok as long as it isn't on the banned list.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:45 pm 
Offline
Sparks Level
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:42 am
Posts: 184
Location: Lawrenceburg KY
Sorry to jump in but, speaking of getting caught up in something and you guys may get a laugh from this but it made a believer out of me. I had put on my FR long sleeve shirt on over my tee shirt to do some voltage testing. I did not put the shirt tail in my pants. I stopped to turn around near a large floor fan and the shirt went right into the fan assembly. It made a lot of noise and beat up the shirt but it could have been worse.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 18
Thanks for all of the replies, my issue with the long sleeves is if our guys are hot and uncomfortable in it, it may cause them not to wear the PPE at all. We have them scattered all over the United States, so unless a customer complains, or we happen to do a spot inspection, it's hard to enforce. So if I can keep it to where their not too uncomfortable, they will be wearing it when it counts.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:47 pm 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:29 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Western Canada
PPE comfort

I don't sell the stuff but we did extensive testing due to the nature of our site. The workplace is hot - it hovers near 90 degrees all the time. The heat stress on our employees is incredible. We tried almost all the available fabrics before settling on Protera because oz for oz it offers a high atpv and is extremely breathable. Treated cotton, Nomex and other blends can be very uncomfortable.
Our compliance is very high - policy is no rolled up sleeves. Look at your options and choose what makes sense for your working conditions. Protera 6.5 oz (8.2 cal) shirt weight is very comfortable, 8 oz (12.3 cal) pants are fine too. Combining a pair of FR coveralls on top of the shirt and pants can raise the system atpv to +25 cal (subject to testing of course). Add a good faceshield and you'll have an easy 20 cal solution if you do it right!
Lots of options - lots of products...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:59 pm 
Offline
Sparks Level

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Charlotte, NC
hillbilly wrote:
Thanks for all of the replies, my issue with the long sleeves is if our guys are hot and uncomfortable in it, it may cause them not to wear the PPE at all. We have them scattered all over the United States, so unless a customer complains, or we happen to do a spot inspection, it's hard to enforce. So if I can keep it to where their not too uncomfortable, they will be wearing it when it counts.


I have given much thought to these issues as well. I think the first order of business is proper training and to have the employees buy into the concept that you are doing for them instead of to them. Also the NESC requires audits and retraining when the employees are found not in compliance. Haven't looked back, but I expect 70E has the same. That is the employers responsibility.

The good thing is that the fabrics today are so much better than they used to be. Most of my clients are in 8 cal shirts and 11+ cal pants with few complaints.....and the uniform suppliers are happy!

Good luck with it!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:14 am 
Offline
Plasma Level

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 1103
Location: Charlotte, NC
Canuck01 wrote:
I don't sell the stuff but we did extensive testing due to the nature of our site. The workplace is hot - it hovers near 90 degrees all the time. The heat stress on our employees is incredible. We tried almost all the available fabrics before settling on Protera because oz for oz it offers a high atpv and is extremely breathable. Treated cotton, Nomex and other blends can be very uncomfortable.
Our compliance is very high - policy is no rolled up sleeves. Look at your options and choose what makes sense for your working conditions. Protera 6.5 oz (8.2 cal) shirt weight is very comfortable, 8 oz (12.3 cal) pants are fine too. Combining a pair of FR coveralls on top of the shirt and pants can raise the system atpv to +25 cal (subject to testing of course). Add a good faceshield and you'll have an easy 20 cal solution if you do it right!
Lots of options - lots of products...


Protera is great, so is Induras new interlock knit.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Arcflash Forum / Brainfiller, Inc. | P.O. Box 12024 | Scottsdale, AZ 85267 USA | 800-874-8883