Arc Flash Forum :: View topic - Long sleeves under FR jacket

I'm new to this forum, and this has probably been answered before, is long sleeve natural fiber(cotton) or FR shirts required under the 11.1 cal jacket? I attended a real good PPE class the day before yesterday, but I failed to ask the instructor whether it was a personal preference, or a requirement. Here in the south, it's already hot in the PPE, and long sleeves is going to make it worse. But if you got to, then you got to.

I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR.

After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR.

The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task.

Thanks for all of the replies, my issue with the long sleeves is if our guys are hot and uncomfortable in it, it may cause them not to wear the PPE at all. We have them scattered all over the United States, so unless a customer complains, or we happen to do a spot inspection, it's hard to enforce. So if I can keep it to where their not too uncomfortable, they will be wearing it when it counts.

I don't sell the stuff but we did extensive testing due to the nature of our site. The workplace is hot - it hovers near 90 degrees all the time. The heat stress on our employees is incredible. We tried almost all the available fabrics before settling on Protera because oz for oz it offers a high atpv and is extremely breathable. Treated cotton, Nomex and other blends can be very uncomfortable.
Our compliance is very high - policy is no rolled up sleeves. Look at your options and choose what makes sense for your working conditions. Protera 6.5 oz (8.2 cal) shirt weight is very comfortable, 8 oz (12.3 cal) pants are fine too. Combining a pair of FR coveralls on top of the shirt and pants can raise the system atpv to +25 cal (subject to testing of course). Add a good faceshield and you'll have an easy 20 cal solution if you do it right!
Lots of options - lots of products...

Author:	hillbilly [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Long sleeves under FR jacket
I'm new to this forum, and this has probably been answered before, is long sleeve natural fiber(cotton) or FR shirts required under the 11.1 cal jacket? I attended a real good PPE class the day before yesterday, but I failed to ask the instructor whether it was a personal preference, or a requirement. Here in the south, it's already hot in the PPE, and long sleeves is going to make it worse. But if you got to, then you got to.

Author:	Zog [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:
hillbilly wrote: I'm new to this forum, and this has probably been answered before, is long sleeve natural fiber(cotton) or FR shirts required under the 11.1 cal jacket? I attended a real good PPE class the day before yesterday, but I failed to ask the instructor whether it was a personal preference, or a requirement. Here in the south, it's already hot in the PPE, and long sleeves is going to make it worse. But if you got to, then you got to. What is the Ei you are exposed to? Are you using HRC's? You have not provided enough info to answer your question.

Author:	hillbilly [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Most of our work is <500 volts, level 2 PPE requirement, got to get 70E tommorow to have the tables to look at.

Author:	acobb [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:
I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR. After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR. The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task.

Author:	hillbilly [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:
acobb wrote: I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR. After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR. The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task. Thats what I would think, but I figured I was missing something.

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Long sleeves under FR jacket https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=911	Page 1 of 1

Author:	richxtlc [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:26 am ]
Post subject:
You are correct, in that 70E doesn't specify anything about long sleeved shirts under a properly rated garment. But an electrician should always be wearing a long sleeve shirt except when working around rotating machinery doing non-electrical work, as long sleeve shirts are a hazard. You can roll them up if need be. But wearing long sleeves under the FR garment adds to the layering effect and therefore provides the additional protection to the arms.

Author:	Zog [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:52 am ]
Post subject:
acobb wrote: I will get corrected if I am wrong, but my reading of 70E would allow any clothing underneath the FR as long as it does not fall into the synthetic "not allowed" category and as long as it is completely covered by the FR. After all, how can it burn if protected? It seems to me like wearing a 100% cotton tee underneath, or thermals all over, so long as they are covered by properly rated FR. The standard recoginzes the value of layering. My comment assumes the 11.1 is adequate and you don't need more layered FR for the task. I agree, but you still need HRC 2 pants.

Author:	Canuck01 [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:00 am ]
Post subject:
Ppe Maybe a clearer way to say it is that all PPE worn and potentially exposed to the flash must be at least 11.1 cal. Undergarments do not count unless specifically tested as a system. Any undergarment is ok as long as it isn't on the banned list.

Author:	THE CABLE GUY [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Sorry to jump in but, speaking of getting caught up in something and you guys may get a laugh from this but it made a believer out of me. I had put on my FR long sleeve shirt on over my tee shirt to do some voltage testing. I did not put the shirt tail in my pants. I stopped to turn around near a large floor fan and the shirt went right into the fan assembly. It made a lot of noise and beat up the shirt but it could have been worse.

Author:	hillbilly [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks for all of the replies, my issue with the long sleeves is if our guys are hot and uncomfortable in it, it may cause them not to wear the PPE at all. We have them scattered all over the United States, so unless a customer complains, or we happen to do a spot inspection, it's hard to enforce. So if I can keep it to where their not too uncomfortable, they will be wearing it when it counts.

Author:	Canuck01 [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:
PPE comfort I don't sell the stuff but we did extensive testing due to the nature of our site. The workplace is hot - it hovers near 90 degrees all the time. The heat stress on our employees is incredible. We tried almost all the available fabrics before settling on Protera because oz for oz it offers a high atpv and is extremely breathable. Treated cotton, Nomex and other blends can be very uncomfortable. Our compliance is very high - policy is no rolled up sleeves. Look at your options and choose what makes sense for your working conditions. Protera 6.5 oz (8.2 cal) shirt weight is very comfortable, 8 oz (12.3 cal) pants are fine too. Combining a pair of FR coveralls on top of the shirt and pants can raise the system atpv to +25 cal (subject to testing of course). Add a good faceshield and you'll have an easy 20 cal solution if you do it right! Lots of options - lots of products...

Author:	acobb [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:
hillbilly wrote: Thanks for all of the replies, my issue with the long sleeves is if our guys are hot and uncomfortable in it, it may cause them not to wear the PPE at all. We have them scattered all over the United States, so unless a customer complains, or we happen to do a spot inspection, it's hard to enforce. So if I can keep it to where their not too uncomfortable, they will be wearing it when it counts. I have given much thought to these issues as well. I think the first order of business is proper training and to have the employees buy into the concept that you are doing for them instead of to them. Also the NESC requires audits and retraining when the employees are found not in compliance. Haven't looked back, but I expect 70E has the same. That is the employers responsibility. The good thing is that the fabrics today are so much better than they used to be. Most of my clients are in 8 cal shirts and 11+ cal pants with few complaints.....and the uniform suppliers are happy! Good luck with it!

Author:	Zog [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:
Canuck01 wrote: I don't sell the stuff but we did extensive testing due to the nature of our site. The workplace is hot - it hovers near 90 degrees all the time. The heat stress on our employees is incredible. We tried almost all the available fabrics before settling on Protera because oz for oz it offers a high atpv and is extremely breathable. Treated cotton, Nomex and other blends can be very uncomfortable. Our compliance is very high - policy is no rolled up sleeves. Look at your options and choose what makes sense for your working conditions. Protera 6.5 oz (8.2 cal) shirt weight is very comfortable, 8 oz (12.3 cal) pants are fine too. Combining a pair of FR coveralls on top of the shirt and pants can raise the system atpv to +25 cal (subject to testing of course). Add a good faceshield and you'll have an easy 20 cal solution if you do it right! Lots of options - lots of products... Protera is great, so is Induras new interlock knit.

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