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 Post subject: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:31 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:35 am
Posts: 24
Scenario:
Troubleshooting a 120-volt circuit on a VFD. The task involves placing a jumper on energized male pins on the circuit board. The jumpers used are manufacture provided and are insulated (not alligator clips).
Would this task require an energized work permit? The technician is interacting with a energized component but would the jumpers be considered the same as a meter lead and thus not require a permit?


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:42 am
Posts: 151
Not enough information to provide an opinion.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 6:01 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:35 am
Posts: 24
mpparent wrote:
Not enough information to provide an opinion.

Mike


Help me out here, what more do you need?


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 11:10 am 
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Posts: 396
Location: Indiana
Just so happens Rozel/Guidant have a new article out related to this topic. Just got in email yesterday.

https://www.guidantpower.com/post/elect ... and-208vac

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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 12:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:35 am
Posts: 24
bbaumer wrote:
Just so happens Rozel/Guidant have a new article out related to this topic. Just got in email yesterday.

https://www.guidantpower.com/post/elect ... and-208vac


That article gives a lot of good information around the hazards but my question is more around the need for a work permit. 70E 130.2(C)(1) list testing and troubleshooting as an exception to the work permit. In my scenario would installing the jumper be considered troubleshooting or is that considered working on energized equipment as defined in 70E?


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2025 8:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:35 am
Posts: 597
Location: Wisconsin
Win Engineer wrote:
bbaumer wrote:
In my scenario would installing the jumper be considered troubleshooting or is that considered working on energized equipment as defined in 70E?


I believe a factory insulated jumper is part of the troubleshooting process. But, this is also one of the reasons Energized Work Permits should exist.

This is purposely a gray are in NFPA70E. It is up to each company to develop and implement their own safety rules, based on their procedures. A qualified person should be able to analyze the risk associated with these jumpers.
It can be a problem keeping a production line working when companies issue a blanket No Energized work EVER policy.


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:00 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:35 am
Posts: 24
JBD wrote:
Win Engineer wrote:
bbaumer wrote:
In my scenario would installing the jumper be considered troubleshooting or is that considered working on energized equipment as defined in 70E?


I believe a factory insulated jumper is part of the troubleshooting process. But, this is also one of the reasons Energized Work Permits should exist.

This is purposely a gray are in NFPA70E. It is up to each company to develop and implement their own safety rules, based on their procedures. A qualified person should be able to analyze the risk associated with these jumpers.
It can be a problem keeping a production line working when companies issue a blanket No Energized work EVER policy.


Yes, but having a plant manager need to sign a permit for this task seems a bit over the top, especially when troubleshooting a VFD at 2 AM. I agree the wording in 70E is gray in places and in my opinion that can lead to broad interpretations of the standard. The problem with leaving it to a qualified person to decide is if something happens, the first thing that will be asked is did you have your energized work permit because you are interacting with an energized component.


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:36 am 
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Location: Indiana
Sorry, not more help here but what you are describing seems to be about as dangerous as plugging in a desk lamp unless where the jumper is located is adjacent to exposed 480V live parts.

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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2025 11:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:42 am
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Thanks Brent...that's exactly why I responded to the OP as "more info needed."

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Would a Energized Work Permit Be Required??
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2025 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:35 am
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Location: Wisconsin
Win Engineer wrote:
Yes, but having a plant manager need to sign a permit for this task seems a bit over the top, especially when troubleshooting a VFD at 2 AM. I agree the wording in 70E is gray in places and in my opinion that can lead to broad interpretations of the standard. The problem with leaving it to a qualified person to decide is if something happens....


Part of being qualified is knowing your company's policies/requirements. What restrictions does your Electrical Safe Work Practices program use to determine troubleshooting versus energized work? NFPA70E does not answer this question for you.

I wish companies would put thought into their ESWP and update them regularly, at least every time there is a new edition of 70E.


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