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 Post subject: Work plan ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:10 am 
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If a company has a electrical work policy and it is using most of what is in 70e[some things they don't follow} as a method of safe work practices would that company be considered complaint should they come under osha's scrudney?

If a companys plan is to used the tables in 70e and their electrical service is much to large to use the tables what does this do to their electrical work plan as far as being complient with Osha? Some of what is in 70e is not followed because they feel it is something that can never happen.

Does a company have to have a electrical work safety plan like nfpa 70e or one of the industry standards that I here about to be reconized by Osha ?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:23 am 
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Quote:
Some of what is in 70e is not followed because they feel it is something that can never happen.

I am curious, wht do they feel "can never happen"?

Quote:
Does a company have to have a electrical work safety plan like nfpa 70e or one of the industry standards that I here about to be reconized by Osha ?
I don't see why not, as long as they can, and are willing to, defend their position in a court of law.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:41 am 
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In what I understand, a company has to follow "Industry Standards" to meet the OSHA requirements. In the last couple of years NFPA 70E has become THE standard.

The idea that something can never happen is very naive and dangerous. All outcomes have to be mitigated no matter how unlikely. The "can never happen" events may be rare, but the outcome may be extreme.

NFPA 70E is a very good starting point for a plant/facility/company. But other work plans, emergency plans, procedures, etc have to be developed to ensure that the work will be completed by competent people and in a safe manner.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:05 am 
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What i am saying is the company wants to use the tables in 70e and call it nfpa 70e . There are tasks in the tables they do not want to use such as training workers to operate cicuit breakers because they feel there is no danger in operating cb's no matter how big they are. How is this a 70e policy? Some panel work is not in there policy also. Plus other issues.

What I am asking is, Is this considered a nfpa70e policy ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:08 am 
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This is a very timely question for me as I am interested in this also. For those that have been through OSHA investigations how is their attitude? Is it a strict following of the industry standards or more on the side of a "safer" work environment.

Another one I have heard of along with CB operation training is utilizing both an arc flash study and the task-based tables in 70E simultaneously. Choosing the HRC from either one.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:00 am 
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toolbbin wrote:
What i am saying is the company wants to use the tables in 70e and call it nfpa 70e . There are tasks in the tables they do not want to use such as training workers to operate cicuit breakers because they feel there is no danger in operating cb's no matter how big they are. How is this a 70e policy? Some panel work is not in there policy also. Plus other issues.

What I am asking is, Is this considered a nfpa70e policy ?


If your system does not meet the note/limits of the tables and you are using the tables anyways you are not in compliance.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:01 am 
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MIEngineer wrote:
Another one I have heard of along with CB operation training is utilizing both an arc flash study and the task-based tables in 70E simultaneously. Choosing the HRC from either one.


You should not be mixing the tables and your analysis. This has been discussed at length here before.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:05 pm 
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If a electric service be to big for a survey does that mean the rest of the electrical panels, mcc , other breakers be void of a survey because of this ?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:54 pm 
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toolbbin wrote:
If a electric service be to big for a survey does that mean the rest of the electrical panels, mcc , other breakers be void of a survey because of this ?


What do you mean by "electric service be to big for a survey"?
What do you mean by "...other breakers be void of a survey"?
This doesn't make any sense to me.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:20 pm 
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I saw this earlier but tought I obviously did not understand so I waited for someone else to respond. As with jghrist, I do not understand what you are trying to describe here....Makes no sense to me!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:59 am 
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My third post said [ survey ] instead of [ tables ] the way it was stated in the
op . If a electrical service is too large [ 3000amps ] and can not use the tables in 70e does this mean the rest of the mcc, panels in other parts of a plant are void of using the tables because of this?
I hope this is a little clearerto you.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:42 am 
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If the available fault current or time for the OCPD is too long and exceeds the limits in the notes for the Table 130.7(C)(9)(a) a flash hazard analysis shall be required. It is the available fault current not the current rating of the equipment that is the determining factor. You need to see if a short circuit study has been done to determine what that fault current is.
Being in compliance means following all of the rules, not just the one's that are convenient or easy to accomplish.


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