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| IEEE 1584 Equation Glitch https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1570 |
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| Author: | Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | IEEE 1584 Equation Glitch |
There is an interesting glitch with the IEEE 1584 equation for arcing short circuit current at or above 1 kV. The equation for arcing current at higher voltages > 1 kV: Log Ia = 0.00402 + [0.983 (Log Ibf)] Ia = 10^(Log Ia) Where: Ibf = 3 phase bolted short circuit current in kA Ia = 3 phase arcing short circuit current IEEE range of validity 700A to 106 kA Here’s the glitch. If the bolted current is 1,000 Amps i.e. 1 kA: Log Ia = 0.00402 + 0.983 X Log (1) Log of 1 = 0 Therefore: Log Ia = 0.00402 + 0.983 X 0 Log Ia = 0.00402 + 0 Log Ia = 0.00402 Ia = 10^(Log Ia) Ia = 10^0.00402 = 1.0093 kA So….. Ibolted = 1,000 Amps and Iarcing =1,009.3 Amps Except it is physically impossible to have Iarcing greater than Ibolted. Oops! |
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| Author: | Vincent B. [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
brainfiller wrote: Except it is physically impossible to have Iarcing greater than Ibolted.
Oops! Not very surprising since the IEEE 1584 equations were curve-fitted from the actual data. Some points will be over or under what's physically possible. It somehow reminds me of 2 AA batteries of mine which, after use, had a negative voltage between the ends (-0.2 V and -0.3 V). I think they gave me too much energy, and now try to get some of it back. Not going to happen... |
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| Author: | jghrist [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The glitch is only relevant for bolted faults < 1.734 kA. This probably won't affect many high incident energy locations. |
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| Author: | Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
jghrist wrote: The glitch is only relevant for bolted faults < 1.734 kA. This probably won't affect many high incident energy locations.
I am sure you are quite correct. I can't imagine that low of a current even sustaining easily. Just thought the little(?) hiccup was interesting. |
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| Author: | Mike Frain [ Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi Jim, I came up with a similar scenario for voltages under and approaching 1000 volts about three years ago. I said at the time "how can you get an arcing current which is greater than the bolted current. You can easily get arcing current which is 50% higher than the bolted short circuit current value. WDeanT kindly posted the following link which is very interesting. The perils of curve fitting equations!!! http://us.ferrazshawmut.com/arcflash/getting_help/downloads/ICPS-wilkins011904_web.pdf Original thread http://www.arcflashforum.com/showthread.php?t=74 |
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| Author: | Jim Phillips (brainfiller) [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mike Frain wrote: Hi Jim, I came up with a similar scenario for voltages under and approaching 1000 volts about three years ago. I said at the time "how can you get an arcing current which is greater than the bolted current. You can easily get arcing current which is 50% higher than the bolted short circuit current value. WDeanT kindly posted the following link which is very interesting. The perils of curve fitting equations!!!
http://us.ferrazshawmut.com/arcflash/getting_help/downloads/ICPS-wilkins011904_web.pdf Original thread http://www.arcflashforum.com/showthread.php?t=74 Hi Mike, Forgot about that post. Good info! Thanks! |
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