I am new, so please bear with me. Which is better and simpler ETAP or EDSA? I am trying ETAP Demo looks OK. Have not tried EDSA. Applied for demo last week, no reply

Personally I use ETAP and believe for the price it is the most advanced software package. Simple to use and great technical support. It has been years since I have used EDSA and at that time there was no comparison, changing to ETAP was a huge improvement.

Ken, I am the sales engineer for Power Analytics (formerly EDSA). Please contact me directly and I'll get you set up with a demo.

rcarlson at poweranalytics dot com

Thanks

Ken, I have used EasyPower and mostly SKM.

Almost all reputable software manufacturers do a pretty good job in obtaining the desire results.

The are many differences, but they relate with the interface, output capabilities, etc, (not with the technical quality of results).

Since I have been using SKM since 1990, I am biased in my opinion. It is my experience with SKM that is
1. VERY easy software to learn and use
2. EXCELLENT technical support (same day response)
3. OUTSTANDING library, and with the possibility of having one HUGE single line diagram and also as many smaller SLD's with different sections (i.e. HV, MV, LV). This helps in managing large projects.
4. And the outstanding feature of SKM (i do not know ia other manufacturers will have it to) is the possibility of including pretty much ANY type of information in the SLD you want (i.e. arc flash boundary, arc flash incident energy, brach fault current, bus fault, load flow, etc) in user defined data blocks.

I have used EDSA may years ago and from my understanding they have fixed the interface - I started on EDSA. I also used ETAP within the last couple of years and it is rock solid. I have also used a few others

I have used SKM for many years and find it the easiest to use with repect to getting information out of it. They are all about the same for getting data in but getting data out (onelines, tabular data) I can make SKM work the easiest. I cannot comment on price since I have always used very large packages. I will say SKM post thier price on the website - rest do not.

Hi Rick,

Yes, we are very transparent with our pricing, unlike the others. Our price list can be download from our website at skm.com

If there are any questions regarding SKM software or if you need a demo to try out, please contact us and we will be more than happy to assist.

Thanks,
--Johnny Ma
310-698-4700

What are the requirements to have a valid study for arc flash? If I have a copy of one of these softwares and enter my data is that good enough or do I need to have a complete study performed with a EE stamp to use for my data?

First of all, the study needs to be done by someone who knows what they are doing. This is true whether it's a PE or not. Blindly filling in numbers in a program without understanding the problem and being familiar with relevant standards is not adequate.

If the study is being performed in-house for your own plant, then it does not have to be performed by a Professional Engineer in most states because there is an industry exemption. If the study is being performed by someone outside the organization, in most states this must be a registered Professional Engineer and the study must have the PE's seal. The PE must be registered in the same state as the facility being studied.

Who controls this ? How do I know the rules in my state?

google professional engineer license and your state name. Most state PE licensing agencies have the rules on their websites.

In Canada, only Ontario has such an exemption, but it's on the way out (no official date given yet).
Plus, my understanding of that exemption (in Ontario) was that it applied only to equipment used to produce goods by the person's employer, so an arc flash study on the electrical distribution system wouldn't qualify.

The exemption may not apply in many US states as well. For example, Florida's exemption includes
Arc hazard analyses would not be covered under this exemption.

Does anyone have the magic words or approach that can get HVAC technitions to consistently wear their arc flash and blast equipment. They are a special breed. Completling 7 jobs in a day only leads to wanting to complete 8 jobs the next day, a great atitude any superintendant would want in an employee. The problem that surfaces is that safety takes a back seat. Auditing their on the job work techniques is a tremendous challenge due to the unpredictability of the work day. Any comments or suggests would be appreciated. I am just a safety guy trying to keep some good men from injury and death.

I think ETAP is the easiest to pick up as a consulting power engineer. SKM has it perks as well.

Thanks, Ross. Kindly set me up with a demo. Ken

Hi Ross,
Thanks for the demo. I will try it out soon.
Regards,
Ken

Does anyone have the magic words or approach that can get *fill-in-the-blanks* technicians to consistently wear their arc flash and blast equipment.

Words no. Demo yes. Take a stick of dynamite (I do not recommend an actual stick of dynamite, but use a movie prop) get them to hold it and pretend to light the fuse. Walk away. Tell them the next arc flash they experience will be just like that stick of dynamite exploding in their face. Tell them the likelihood of it happening to them is greater than the likelihood of having another car accident. Then get them to write down the eulogy they would like you to give at their funeral for their wife and kids to hear. Kinda does it for me.

Classic symptom of poor management. If you are rewarding poor safety behavior or simply ignoring it then you get what you asked for. If you don't enforce it, it won't happen. Trust me you can do all the verbal/written warnings you want and you have to build a paper trail. Sometimes even the first time someone takes a couple days off to think about it, there is no real response. But the first time you terminate one, the rest will definitely get the message. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

I can tell you one case where it didn't come to that. I had a mechanic working for me that came from a fishing family. Let's just say they didn't practice anything resembling what you'd call safe behaviors on the water. He had a real problem wearing safety glasses, wearing a seat belt, etc., etc. The first time he broke his wrist with a D-handle drill, I told him I'd keep him on light duty. No time off because he had one working arm and I wasn't going to lose it. The reason he broke his wrist was because he was holding it wrong when he was drilling through a steel bulkhead and this is a common error (and unfortunately, injury). Now this may sound like I was being very merciful...far from it.

The first 2 days I had him catch up on all his safety training for the year, ALL day. Then I had him filing a lot of paperwork until he begged to at least work in the shop. So I put him on resorting all the fasteners in the fastener bins (a thankless job). Then eventually sweeping floors and cleaning out some old junk in the shop. This went on for 6 weeks until his wrist healed and the doctor released him to full duty.

This guy was begging on some days to get time off instead. I knew exactly how to push the buttons of the aggressive wants to work variety. Both that mechanic and his buddy (who was almost as bad) towed the line from then on, afraid of having to do "light duty" because they didn't follow the safety rules ever again.

This is the reason that "in school suspension" is so effective with the troublemakers in school. It works on tradesmen too. Put them on very menial, unskilled jobs such as changing light bulbs or the jobs I described EVERY day. You don't have to give them time off or fire them. They take pride in what they do and want to do a good job. Remember that almost everyone typically wants that positive reinforcement, of knowing they did a good job and that their job has "meaning" and is important. Taking that away does the trick. IF they don't seem to care then I wouldn't want them around in the first place because they don't care about their work either. At that point, it's "just a job" and workmanship will be crap. You should probably get rid of them anyways, so go ahead and use progressive discipline (verbal, written, time off, termination) to weed those out. Safety infractions are an excellent way to get there because it wins grievance battles/HR meetings every time. You can even get rid of the ingrained union thugs this way, contrary to popular belief, but it does take some support from HR (aka growing a spine).